book talk on Slim to None

[ARTgrrlOne]

moved from Current Events to Book Club

Well, I just came back from a book talk given by the father of the woman in the book, 'Slim to None.' (this book is one of the most brutally honest portrayls of an ED I've read. its extremely sad and depressing b/c this girl dies and this book really made me want to not be sick when I first read it).

I went with one of my t's (we got together at three, ran errands, did lunch, watched mtv's true life on EDs and then went to the talk).

The man read some passages from the book and then answered questions and there were a lot for him. He dedicated the second passage he read to a girl from childrens hospital. (apparently he got a phone call last night for whatever reason that a girl who is IP right now at childrens really wanted to come but her dr's were hesitant. I suppose this man offered his support to her). He didn't really address anything that wasn't in the book. He talked about how he didn't give up on Jenny for a really long time. He talked about how they didn't know about the abusive therapist she had, how most of the treatment she had was all behaviorally inclined and it didn't help her. Her first hospitilzation was at Childrens Hospital in Denver (where I see my doc :surprise ) and He did say if he could have done things differently, he would have done all he could to move to New York and have her see Steven Levenkron. He also mentioned that perhaps Peggie Claude-Pierre's program might have benefited Jenny. I raised my hand and asked him 'at what point do you think Jenny gave up hope?' He said never. :surprise (which sorta surprised me b/c the prologue opens with her saying that she felt ready to die I think) and that it seemed like the general tone at the end when she was in the nursing home was that she felt like giving up. :ummm So I don't know...

Anyways, so T. ran into a former patient of hers that is still in treatment somewhere and so while T. spent time talking to the woman's mom, I was in the line for the book signing behind this chick. I overheard this father of Jenny tell this girl 'You look healthy enough' :mad (you don't say 'healthy' to someone with an ED! :ugh ) I told T. what I heard and she was like 'you're shitting me.' I wish I was :sad Lemme tell ya, that shut me up from mentioning my own ED when I got up to him.

Also, there was this really emaciated chick there that T. and I ran into browsing the ED books before the talk. (T. wanted suggestions for books for parents and family). this girl was so sad, I mean she was there all alone, obviously an older woman, she was going on about how she had all the books in the section already. I overheard her at the end of the talk talking to two women and she was like 'Yeah, I'm seeing Dr. So and So who apparently is the third best dr. in the country...my blood levels are normal...' etc...And yeah, it triggered me. It triggered me into thinking 'how truly pathetic it is when your life only revolves around an ED. I want more than that.' :surprise

I'm still pissed though at that 'healthy' comment. :ohboy

had some good processing with T. tonight though. We talked about insurance and how frustrating it is that recovery seems endless right now. How with the overtone of the night tonight and the statistic on mtv of it taking between seven to ten years to recover made me feel kinda lost. But she was really inspiring and also reassured me about how well I'm doing, how she and my team are here for me and she even offered her phone, cell phone number for me to call (aside from my t!) anytime of the day/night when i'm struggling and need to hear someone's voice. :touched

:love
Ally :sun

[brwnEMT]

Ali~

My T and I were talking about the book yesterday. I finished it up as I was waiting for her, so she came out to see her next client :crying...not a good way to start the session! :winky

I could relate to my family dynamics so much in that story, it was incredible...the family therapy sessions had me laughing so hard...I read some parts out loud to my T and we imagined how a family session would go (we've yet to make it through one...) :muhaha....thanks, I needed that laugh again! :muhaha

I think when Jenny was in the nursing home was when she finally realized that it was her time to go. Something that her father said. I wish I had known about the talk. Don't know if it would have been appropriate, but I would have been curious. My book is at my T's office, so I don't know the page number, but it's when Jenny is leaving one hospital (Glenbrook?, after that really bad suicide attempt, and the pretty scarf) and she says to her dad, "I heard about a patient who got better in a nursing home, what about Resthaven, I used to candystripe there." and Gordon says "Do you think it's time?"
What do you think?
And on another note....is MTV's True Life--ED going to be aired again? I keep missing it. :ugh
:peace
Nikki

[ribbon]

I'm just curious to what you thought of the book. Was it triggering to you? It sounds like the father still doesn't "get it". Did he contribute to the book?
I'm thinking about getting it, but not sure if it would be a trigger. I can't look through it because my book store doesn't have it, so I'd have to order it.
thanks.

[macgirl]

I didn't like Slim to None. I think alot of it was because much of the experience that "Jenny" and her father went through was years ago, before current ED treatment.

Nowadays if you end up IP, most often you will not end up confined to bed with no contact with anybody else but medical staff. There will be group therapy, group meals, etc. You'll have to participate.

I don't know what year "Jenny" died, but it would be interesting to find out just how recently this all happened.

[freddi]

i havent read the book nor do i know her father....but in some way i want to defend him.....


he has seen his daughter in very bad places and he has seen her die. at the same time, he did not have the illness himself, so he doesnt know that whatever weight you are, you are still going to struggle badly. also, at least thats what it is like with my family, they are really glad when they know i am not the thinnest out there, because then they still have hope....on the other hand they also seem to 'envy' other ed people who are not as thin because they think they have more hope....for them emaciation = death to be brutally honest, and i would guess it is similar for him....you can educate people and parents to death, but they usualyl only are able to believe and go by what they see.....its :sad but at the same time i dont think we should be too judgemental


:love

freddi

[JolieAnn]

Wow. I wish I knew that he was going to talk. I definitely would have liked to go.
I read the book when it first came out and honestly, I have been doing so much work for school, I cannot remember too many details. I do remember the abusive therapist. I remember the over-all dark tone of the book. I think it had to be the saddest eating disorder book I have ever read. His speech must have been so emotional. I am sorry that I didn't know about it.
I have to agree, living with your entire life revolved around this illness is so scary. It just takes away everything in our lives. I don't know. Sometimes I read a specific post or hear a certain story, and I become extremely emotional. (This is one of them).

Thanks for sharing, Hun.
Sending :love and :flower to all of those who are suffering....

[Sylphlover]

Thank you for sharing your experience with us. I enjoyed what you had to say...

[Millificent]

I asked Chris Athas, who wrote the intro, about the book. He said that Jenny (that is her real first name) died at least eight years ago and it may be more than ten. Chris couldn't remember exactly.

He also said that originally the book was even more depressing, but he got Mr. H to rewrite the ending to try and give people a little more hope. I haven't read it, so I don't know any details.

:dragon Millie

[kailyn]

The book has just come out in the UK (whoohoo for Borders! I could live in that shop. My tutor at college actually owns a flat above it, I hate him so much for that!) and I bought it on monday. I am nearly through it now (haven't really sat down much this week). Me and the girl I was with sat in Starbucks when I bought it and read the first chapter, and we were in tears. Did think it rather ironic that I was crying into my muffin while I was reading it :sarcasm (damn I should have been born in america..I spend all my time in shops that originated there!)
I think the same as Freddi..Jennifer was extremely sick practically the whole time she was anorexic, so her father would obviously be more..used?..to that idea of anorexia. I have never been seriously underweight, I know how fucking awful EDs can be at any weight, all of us do, but for parents..I mean, this is a confusing disorder anyway. At sf we are emmersed in this..I think we lose sight of the fact that for most people, this is something they have maybe read about in a magazine once, something they probably didn't give another thought to. Not everyone is an expert, and parents of an anorexic might know a lot about anorexia, but not much about COE.
I wanted to throw the book across the room when I was reading about DR Weintraubs treatment of Jenny :cry as if the poor girl didn't hate herself enough..

[ARTgrrlOne]

She died in nineteen-eighty-nine (straight from the dad's mouth!)

I'm remembering a statistic the father said. He said that perhaps in the last five years of her life, she spent ninety percent of the time hospitalized. :surprise

:hugon Nikki :hugoff
I think thats great that you've been able to talk with your t. about this book! I think since it is so emotionally powerful and filled with events, that it is important that someone is there to discuss it with. I too could relate to some of the family dynamics, like being isolated from my sibling and being closer to my father when i was younger than my mom. Though now I think thats changing. I don't remember the end passages of the book, but I do think that she did start to lose hope in the nursing home. I know that the father knew her better than I did, but at the same time...he wasn't in her head, ya know? :shy Umm, are you in colorado? how would you have come to the talk? I'm not sure when the True life will be back on, check your tv guide...usually it might be on during the day or late at night or something.

:hugon ribbon :hugoff
hey hon. the book was triggering for me, but not in the way one might think. It was so depressing and hard to read how her whole life consisted of being in treatment, that I truly felt disgusted with myself at the end and wanted recovery. I think that if you are even questioning getting this book, that it probably isn't the time for you to read it yet. As I mentioned to Nikki above, I think its vitally important to have someone (therapist) to process it with.

:hugon macgirl :hugoff
yeah, a lot of the book disturbed me. And I was also so very curious about all the treatment since she recieved a good portion of it in my home state. Like I mentioned above, she died in nineteen eighty nine and I think I remember the father saying at one point when he was mentioning things he would have done differently that her struggle was before antidepressants or other meds were widely used, so she didn't get a chance to try those out.

:hugon freddi :hugoff
You bring up a very good point, something that I've been able to grasp only in the recent day or so with reflecting back. My T. that I went with also mentioned this aspect. I think that he probably said what he did b/c he's seen his daughter at such an emaciated state, that to him he thought he was making a compliment or encouraging her recovery to say that. I don't think bad of him or anything, it was more appalling to hear it and since the week before this I have been struggling, my head must have just been more sensitive to triggering comments. But thanks for sharing this perspective. It is an important one!

:hugon Jolie Ann :hugoff
You're in colorado too? it was a pretty emotional talk. I was holding back tears, b/c I could truly feel his pain. When he answered someones question about when he lost hope, he was saying something like 'I remember the night when I came home from seeing her or something and just slumped against the refrigerator and slid down to the floor and cried. No more hospitilizations'...it was just heartbreaking to hear :sad The neat thing about the talk was that a lot of his neighbors from Steamboat Springs came down to hear him and support him, so that must have been extra special to him.

:hugon sylphlover :hugoff
no problem! glad I could provide some reading material :grin

:hugon Millie :hugoff
Yeah, there was a lot that was rewritten. The dad mentioned how he had all of her journals but one (b/c one of the hospitals still has it and didn't return it) and that he had to cut a lot out and rewrite some...though he didn't mention about making it less depressing. I think thats interesting and I know it must have been really hard for him to do b/c at the talk it seemed that he was really trying to get across the powerful story of Jenny and how hopeless treatment had been for her.

:hugon kailyn :hugoff
borders rocks! I :love that store. Glad you did read it with a friend...its very disturbing to plow through on your own. Yeah, she was treated so unfairly by that dr. And you do bring up a good point about the dad and EDs. Thanks!

Thanks for sharing all your thoughts you guys, very interesting to hear...

:love
Ally :sun

[brwnEMT]

ARTgrrl said: :shy Umm, are you in colorado? how would you have come to the talk?

:hugon Ali :hugoff
I would have gotten you to ask for me...since I'm oh....a couple thousand miles away from Colorado! :grin
:peace
Nikki

[Talihar]

I read this book when it first came out and found myself angry at the father because of the way in which he interjected his own stuff, wrote narratives to cover certain time periods, etc. I was struck by the fact that everybody else seemed to be a villain in one way or another but HE came out smelling like a rose.... Clearly there was a very close relationship between him and Jenny, but I think that it probably would have been helpful had he examined his own role in her illness. Reading about Jenny's mother and then reading the information on the book jacket about him living with his wife in Steamboat Springs, I wondered if in fact this were the SAME wife, Jenny's mother, or if a divorce/remarriage might have occurred? That's how it struck me, because of the way Jenny's mother was depicted in the book.

I was horrified at the description of that one therapist but again part of me questions just how bad was she really? Unfortunately we'll never know the truth behind that situation. I suspect that the truth lies somewhere in between what was conveyed in the book and however the woman really was in working with her patients, especially Jenny.

In my opinion, the book is tainted by the father's insertion of his own perceptions and his own editing and interpretation of situations. It could have been a much different book, I suspect, had Jenny lived to have written and published it herself without anyone's interference.

That said, I do understand the father's pain and that he wanted to send a message to the world, convey the intense struggle, the terror, the horror, the grief that comes with an eating disorder, and that it is not something easily resolved, either by the patient him/herself or the family. Unfortunately because of the time period involved the message loses some of its impact because things ARE different today, to a certain extent, and there are more efficacious treatments (including meds) and treatment programs out there. On the other hand, this book also sharply pointed up the contrast between then and now: nowadays patients have very limited stays inpatient as opposed to the days when someone was in a facility for many months. No way had Jenny been going through her struggles today would she have been inpatient for as long periods as she was!

And, yes, back in the days when Jenny was receiving treatment there weren't all the meds available and there weren't all the treatment centers. Hopkins was the first dedicated EDU in a hospital setting and shortly thereafter a few other hospitals opened units and adopted their protocols. I remember that at around that time there was ABTEC in St Louis and I'm wondering if this is the facility where Jenny was treated a couple of times. ?? Anyone remember the place I'm talking about?

About the comment that her dad made to someone at the book signing/speech.... it is very likely that he has not been exposed to a lot of other anorexics besides his daughter and that to him, "anorexia" means being as severely emaciated as she was. I say this because of having a friend who has a very long history of anorexia and who had never gone inpatient to an EDU until recently; over the years her parents have met a few of her friends from our support group, some of us anorexic but nowhere near the state of emaciation that their daughter was in, and from comments they have made it is clear that they don't quite "get" that someone doesn't need to be xx pounds in order to still be struggling. To them "anorexia" is represented by extreme emaciation.

When they went to the hospital to visit their daughter after she finally did go inpatient, they commented to her and then later to me that none of the other girls looked like there was anything wrong, they weren't THAT thin, except maybe one teenager. <Sigh> At that point in time there were several anorexics on the unit. And, yes, that teenager was definitely emaciated. Others who were merely thin or slightly underweight, never mind normal weight, weren't recognized by the parents as being anorexic because this wasn't their frame of reference. I suspect that this mindset applies to Gordon Hendricks as well.

This family and I have known each other for several years and they have seen me at xx pounds lighter than I am now and yet it didn't seem to register with them at the time that perhaps that weight was not a healthy one for me, never mind that it was clearly reflecting a relapse into anorexia.... comments they made then suggested that they thought I was a "little too thin," but certainly this wasn't anything like what they were seeing in their daughter's frank emaciation.

So this could be a similar thing with Jenny's father. Gordon Hendricks may have been so accustomed to seeing his daughter at such low weights that to him anything else would look "healthy," regardless if the person might have been really still struggling.

Reading the book was very disturbing for me, especially as it was on the eve of my friend's hospitalization and I was already concerned for her. The weights mentioned....she had been there, too, and when she went inpatient was pretty close to the weight at which Jenny Hendricks died. My friend has almost died several times and of course we're all aware that she's not out of the woods yet, not by a long shot. Needless to say this is one book which I have not mentioned or shared with my friend or her parents.

Talihar

[Liliana]

I have to agree that I found this book very disturbing. I found myself not even wanting to read it once I started. I think knowing that she is a real person and did not survive her struggle was very difficult to take. Also the sense of despair at the end made me feel a loss of hope. In a way it's good to read these accounts because it does make the reality of ED's more frightening but it also makes me wonder if recovery is in fact possible.

Liliana

[seekinghelp]

I read the book, didn't think it was very helpful, but didn't think it was too bad either. It was really sad, but I think it was good how she kept focusing on getting better, even if she wasn't really doing much about it. :ugh Her parents seemed to support her, but she just gradually deteriorated. :sad
I don't understand how she could have died though when she was in all those hospitals. I just wanted to scream into the book, " Why are you letting her do this to herself? FEED HER." Couldn't they have put her on feeding tubes or something for a while? I mean, why did they just let her go? It makes me sad and mad. But I guess it is more complicated than that. I can't see how anyone can physically and mentally let themselves get that bad off. :cry
I don't know. It's complicated stuff, that's for sure.

[Millificent]

:bump for s_p_p

[Rayneonthemoon]

I read this book several years ago, at the reccomendation (with caution) by my T; At that time I was in a crucial part of my own ed-recovery-process, and my T thought it would be good for me to read (at that point in the process);

I felt the book was helpful ~ not for the usual qualities a helpful book, has, but for the reason that it was truly, tragically.... raw; For me, the empathy factor was intense. I had read the book two times during two different stages of my own recovery, and both times I had to read it in small incriments because of its intensity.

Although it's hard to say "I liked the book" - because of the very contect of the book, I have to say that it is a book that has had one of the greatest impacts on me in regards to eating disorder related books/stories.

Something my T also really kept reminding me is that this was prior to the ED treatment we have today, so.... while the book may have a "hoepless" underdone - that is not the point it's making.

[Joharie]

Interesting to see this discussion revived! It has been a long time since I've looked at the book -- I was one who bought and read it at the time it was first published. Since I am in a different place emotionally and physically than I was at the time I first read the book it would be really interesting now to see if I would feel any differently or respond differently to it...... It was a truly sad and tragic story and one which, unfortunately, I'm sure is still being repeated today in spite of different treatment protocols and different medications available to people with EDs.