Need --> Feeling --> Behavior

[CerealKiller]

Something I've been thinking of and was finally able to articulate to myself today.

Need leads to-> Feeling leads to -> Behavior

Based on that, I asked myself 'how do your behaviors and feelings relate to your needs?' Because often I have known very well that my own behavior/feelings fuels my unhappiness, but I was not sure how or why. I'll look at my behavior now, and my feelings, instead of judging myself as a person (saying 'Oh I must be a horrible person, I'm such a jerk, I'm a this or that' like I used to do) I won't judge but will just look honestly at the behavior and see if it needs to be changed (is it interfering with my ability to get my needs met?) and if it does, work on that in the future. See if I can find some other way to express or address my needs that might work more effectively than my old behaviors. (Those that were not effective.) A person's behavior may not be appropriate, but, you, as a person are. If you can accept that you're less than perfect, and need to grow, but look at it as 'growing' rather than 'falling short' (because you can't accept mistakes in yourself) then you have a much more stable center to work from. The same thing with feelings. Most of your behaviors relate to your feelings. So once you look honestly at the behavior instead of judging it, you can then see even deeper and get access into what your feelings even are. For those of us who often don't know. :cute Don't apologize for them or feel ashamed. Ask why you feel that way instead. And you will find it relates your needs. See how the feelings and behaviors relate, and if one is reinforcing the other.

Accepting that you do, in fact, have needs, and being consciously aware of them is not easy for most of us. I am not even talking so much about the big needs like 'feeling loved.' The most basic need we ALL have, according the Hierarchy of needs by Maslow, is to feel SAFE. For most of us this basic need has not/is not being met. Until you meet this need, you will never go on to further development. Safety, we can assume, for most of us means the assumption that you will not be hurt in your present environment. Then taking the steps to ensure that you are safe, no matter what your specific fears are. Because so much of our behavior, if not all of it, is an unconscious attempt to meet these basic needs. But if we don't know what we need or want, then we stumble blindly about and usually don't find the best ways to address the needs. (ED or alcoholism may temporrarily alleviate fear, but it doesn't help in the long run; I just become dependent upon it. But if you haven't accepted the behavior, so you can look honestly at it, then you won't be able to see the feelings that lie underneath it. And if you don't accept the feelings but try to push them down because they make you 'bad' or are 'wrong' then you won't be able to see the need where they are arising from.

Learn what your needs are, how to take care of them, how they relate to the way you interact in the world, and so forth.

So awareness of all three must work together.

A post Millie has up on the A/B board made me think of this earlier and then I came here to work on it some more, to sort out my own feelings, understanding and interpretation of things, and also share it, in the hopes that if even one person reads it and gets it, it can be helpful to two of us instead of just one. Or three or four, or so on.

Maybe this will clarify...(for myself and anyone else...I hadn't realized the wording would be so difficult or possibly too convoluted. An actuality may help make it clearer. :shy)

Here's an example of how it has all worked for me.

behavior: I hide during lunch.

Why: I am afraid to ask anyone if I can sit them because I'm scared they'll say no.

Feeling: Fear

Why: I am afraid of not being liked.

Need: To feel safety and security in my environment. (Basic need)

When we feel accepted by those around us, we tend to feel safe and secure. Acceptance triggers feelings of safety and security for most of us, dating back to the earliest times. Our parents provided our basic needs as children, and if they accepted us we felt 'safe and secure' because these two factors were inextricably bound in our mind. As we grow up and interact with more of the world, the unconscious need still goes with us, hence the 'need' to feel accepted by your peers, co-workers etc. Though survival does not depend upon this acceptance, in your unconscious mind, it does because once upon a time, in your very earliest, deepest memories, this assumption was correct: acceptance did equal life. Safety, security. By nature, humans are born dependent upon another for survival, and we may fight to escape this conditioning, but it is bound within us very deeply.

:ufo :drawblue :robot

[CerealKiller]

LOL. I also just realized this has answered a question/debate I have been having mentally for years with myself and others. And which therapists have also debated for years.

Which must be addressed first the Feeling or the Behavior?

Need ---> Feeling ---> Behavior

My own view has always been that we must change the behavior first because so long as you have the behavior in the way, you will not be able find the feeling underneath. I could not explain it this way, but it always worked for me. Now I see why: Because when I took away the behavior, this is the equation I was left with:

Need ---> Feeling

With no behavior to block the feelings, I had no choice but to see the feelings...

My way is right! :supergrin

but

Here is the other approach. You go directly to the feelings underneath the behavior and begin to change that. Ideally you get rid of the bad feelings or change them to a more positive state which in turn makes the behavior change. So once again, you are focused on the feelings aspects as the center of the equation.

It is right! :supergrin

Both approaches lead you to the same place in the end. It's really a matter of how you the individual learn. Just like some people prefer to hear things and others prefer to read it or see it, we all learn differently. The same is true in learning about ourselves. Different strokes for different folks. It's all leading back to the same center of origin. Come from the North, or come from the South, as long as you're heading to the center and the earth is round, you'll get there eventually. :cute

I have now resolved this to my satisfaction as well. And I really must stop questioning myself now because I could go on with this forever...what leads to what leads to what, until we have traced everything back to the origin of the universe, but that would take a lot longer than I can sit it doing it. At least this afternoon!

But it would be a fascinating equation, wouldn't it...? If you could really do it. Find the time to sit down and trace the origin of everything back to the beginning, in a single neat equation. Breaking it down minutely, accounting for every step.

That could actually be very interesting. :idea And fun. It would certainly give you something to think about! :sarcasm

:ufo :drawblue :robot

[Garth]

Dear CerealKiller ,

I was wondering . . . when you asked yourself why you were arfraid to ask anyone to sit with you for lunch , and you were afraid of not being liked . . . . have you asked yourself from where that fearful thought came from ? You know that answer . . . it's somewhere for you to learn from . Is it your voice ? Were you born feeling fear , thinking you may not be liked ?
All that was learned in our lives can be unlearned . Question everything . Find your answers . . . . then let them go . . . . . . and find yourself .
I am responsible for me this day . From the moment I was born it was up to me how to manage my existence . Those who I grew up with I have no blame for . . . . everyone does what they can with what we have . That also does not excuse someone either . Emotions from all times in our lives must be felt . . . or we go on with like a black hole in our heart .. . . . then we wonder why we are not meeting our needs . I have found to fill in my voids . . . I had to go back to where it started . I can't see the origin of the void by looking at it from the top . . . I have to literally jump in the pit and land at the very bottom . . where it started . Only then could I see what was going on . . . and I could start from there .
I hope this makes some sense for you . . . but it's all I have to offer for the moment . I certainly care . . . but I am far from perfect . . . so I 'd rather take the risk to respond than stay silent . Be well . . . be YOU .

:love Garth:sun

[kleoniki]

Thank you for sharing yr ideas I found support and company in following the way you express things i myself had somehow close to yr own thoughts.It is companionship i experienced or at least a promissed END IN LONELINESS :the same kind of companionshiip with the writer of a book or the film maker a "relation" i feel familiar to...I ve once had a silly idea that seemed so strong:that if i could diminish feelings that would go directly to NEEDS and lessen them and therefore the pain of non fulfilment would have been less.Well today i think that NEEDS is something non pieghable and invariable therefore the only safe way is through feeling-cultivation or behavior-training.
Again thank you and have a nice walk!

[Pella]

:hugoncerealkiller:hugoff
Oh...I just love this kind of stuff! :grin
You're right...everyone assess their needs, feelings and behaviors differently. Everyone's constellation of symptoms and cognitive awareness or distortion differs. That's what's great about bouncing:bounce different viewpoints and ideas off each other.

You say....Need---feeling---behavior.
I go one step further and say that your thoughts influence your needs, which influence your feelings which dictate your behavior/actions. You have to go deeper and take a look at the thought pattern that is causing the needs/feelings. However fleeting a thought is....and sometimes we're so unaware even subconsciously how our thoughts effectively sabotage and influence our feelings/behaviors.

I am a strong advocate for programing the thoughts in my mind. Having suffered through panic disorder twelve years ago....I was faced with the difficult work of re-programming my negative thought system. I was so unaware of how detrimental the thoughts I was "thinking" were to my life! Worrying obsessively, ruminating, racing thoughts invading my brain twentyfour seven. Habitual negative thinking is what I grew up around. Hard habit to break.

Now I'm not always saying you can arrest a thoughts and like a robot program your thinking....but we do have a lot of control over our thoughts. Thus some control over our feelings by recognizing what we are "thinking" thus influencing our actions. Feelings are the part we can't control....but by noticing what we are thinking while experiencing a certain feeling.....you can get a handle on what's going on in your mind. It's a fascinating process, and biofeedback is a tool that utilizes this and is really cool.
Love beth :sun

[fefa]

:bounce ck :bounce

Just want to say something! i guess we spent our life looking for an approval that we just hide, we just life in a place that no one can get. I guess when we realize that we have to express our feeling and don't control then, that we have to accept ourselves no matter what, things get better!

[kleoniki]

Originally posted by Pella
:hugoncerealkiller:hugoff
Oh...I just love this kind of stuff! :grin
You're right...everyone assess their needs, feelings and behaviors differently. Everyone's constellation of symptoms and cognitive awareness or distortion differs. That's what's great about bouncing:bounce different viewpoints and ideas off each other.

You say....Need---feeling---behavior.
I go one step further and say that your thoughts influence your needs, which influence your feelings which dictate your behavior/actions. You have to go deeper and take a look at the thought pattern that is causing the needs/feelings. However fleeting a thought is....and sometimes we're so unaware even subconsciously how our thoughts effectively sabotage and influence our feelings/behaviors.

I am a strong advocate for programing the thoughts in my mind. Having suffered through panic disorder twelve years ago....I was faced with the difficult work of re-programming my negative thought system. I was so unaware of how detrimental the thoughts I was "thinking" were to my life! Worrying obsessively, ruminating, racing thoughts invading my brain twentyfour seven. Habitual negative thinking is what I grew up around. Hard habit to break.

Now I'm not always saying you can arrest a thoughts and like a robot program your thinking....but we do have a lot of control over our thoughts. Thus some control over our feelings by recognizing what we are "thinking" thus influencing our actions. Feelings are the part we can't control....but by noticing what we are thinking while experiencing a certain feeling.....you can get a handle on what's going on in your mind. It's a fascinating process, and biofeedback is a tool that utilizes this and is really cool.
Love beth :sun
dear pella
how interesting nd promising this positive thinking stuff.I would very much like to use it but where should i stand to move the earth?
What about metaphors what about complicated use of one idea with thousand of possible interpretations inside yr universe? I find it difficult to distinguish between light and darkness (there are always shades). It is so often a POSITIVE idea to end up completely distorted far inside you where practically out of reach is subconscious universe. I wonder if
is ever possible to practise it absolutely. Of course up to a certain superficial point maybe is usefull but how really deep in could things be manageable?
anyway thank you for being here with your ideas,Good Luck!

[c]

Cerealkiller :funky

Great post !

Something I`ve always known, I guess deep down, but never really thought about is that the essence of being human is having needs and thus we instinctively live in a manner in which our needs may be met. Along the way we feel things and behaviours are created accordingly- sure I`m being vague, but I`m trying to sift thru this, because it`s never really made sense to me before, unitl now.

I feel like I`ve always gone out of my way NOT to need - who the hell do I think I am ? I dunno - to not cry is to not be vulnerable and weak, to not eat is to be strong and of great will - do u see what I`m saying? It`s a almost a war , a crazy conquering of self inorder to be rendered super - human, someone who needs nothing , feels nothing and cannot be hurt by anything.

I guess this war is futile, because in the end we are all human - and maybe that is what is so ahrd to accept.

Thanks again, you really made me htink

luv and hugs

c

[Pella]

Thanks :hugoncerealkiller:hugoff for this thread, I would like to reply to Kleoniki here.

:hugonKleoniki:hugoff
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. You obviously are a deep thinker. :grin
You said.....
"It is so often a POSITIVE idea to end up completely distorted far inside you where practically out of reach is subconscious universe. I wonder if it is ever possible to practise it absolutely."

It's so true, you can take a positive idea and distort it inside because each person's own convoluted perception of what defines positivity or negatives is relative/different. I've been accused by some for being "pollyannish" in my quest for seeing the glass always half full.
But I've found viewing my circumstances/life from a positive perspective to have been real helpful in teaching and pulling me out of some pretty severe depressions in my past. Reframing my negative thinking was some of the toughest work I've done....

It has been said..."there are no absolutes."
Personally for myself......I've come to base my life on the absolute power and truth of God. I consider myself to be a person of rational intellect and always made my decisions on the basis of fact and truth. But the truth was-----I had to be broken by God to bridge the gap in my heart and mind.
Now, I follow God's absolute principles as the moral compass in my life. I see the light and acknowledge the darkness and experience shades of gray.....but now I can discern between them.
Thanks for making me think :hugonKleoniki!:hugoff
Love beth :sun

[CerealKiller]

:hugon Garth :hugoff :hugon kleoniki :hugoff :hugon Pella :hugoff :hugon Fefa :hugoff :hugon C :hugoff

I just wanted to thank you all for these replies. They have made me think a lot about a lot of things.

Pella, you accurately pointed out that I had not accounted for thoughts, and I had to think about that because I know that I was picturing them in their somewhere, and I guess I have always tied them in with behaviors. Feelings lead to thoughts which lead to behaviors, but since behaviors can also reinforce throughts, I was just lumping them all in as the same thing. Behaviors and thoughts. What you said about reprogramming thoughts is RIGHT on target!! And very similar to what I've been trying to do with myself though I've been using the word 'behavior.' This actually helped me get my thoughts even clearer in my own mind, and thank you a lot for thought.

In a weird way, it's almost like the three form a feedback loop. Feelings lead to certain thoughts which can trigger certain behaviors, and the behaviors reinforce the feelings, which leads to similar thoughts which lead you to repeat the behaviors and so forth.

Dang, there's a lot to think about here!

C, also what you said about not wanting to need. That used to be my ultimate goal with the ED. If could rise above all need, I would be invulnerable. But ironically the need to 'not need' is the greatest need of all. You try to deny your human essence, but it's a battle that will never be won.

Kleoniki, your ideas were very thought provoking, and I replied more in your other post.

Garth...question everything. You could not have summed up my life's philosophy more perfectly. There's a million ways to be, and everyone us is different. We will all find recovery in our own ways, ways that meet our truest needs, and the important thing is not that we all find it in the same way, but that we find it in a way that truly relates to our needs and satisfies them. Thank you for sharing these thoughts here, they made me think.

:love to all of you.

[JessaBeth]

:stars :stars :stars :stars :stars :stars

This has really made me think alot about Renfrew lately, and something my therapist and I worked with. It was a work book called
"Mind Over Mood", anyone ever heard of it ?
It has a book, and a workbook version.
Anyways - in reading the posts, it reminded me a great deal of cognitive/behavioral
"reprogramming" so to speak....
I just thought I would share.
{{ Brightest Blessings }}

:stars :stars :stars :stars :stars :stars

[Jik]

I've been wanting to respond to this for some time but as I have been painfully busy this is the first opportunity that I have created for myself to do so.

I found this entire thread fascinating and informative.

I myself had to go to the feelings first. They were the key component that I was trying to avoid at all costs. That and the programming I received as a child.

Many of my reactions and responses developed out of an acute need to be able to respond immediately. I developed senses to detect even the slightest nuance of danger because that was my life.

Unfortunately the constant sense of unbalance wrought its own toll. I no longer felt secure or safe being anything but vigilant. The few times I did let down my guard and hope that a need/feeling would be met in an appropriate manner I was very disappointed.

I left the training ground called childhood with those responses firmly entrenched in my mind although I was not actually aware how powerful they still were. So in order for me to address the behaviors I had to first address the misguided instinctive reactions that I had developed during my formative years. I had to challenge the thinking that I was so and so and so and not worth such and such and such before I could begin to let go of the protective blanket that my eating disorder offered me.

As Marlene said - to each their own.

Joy, who unfortunately, must get back to work.

[Starflower]

This is to JessaBeth really - when I read this post it also reminded me of "Mind Over Mood". I started a post a while ago in the mental health issues part of the bowl. I wonder if you could tell me more about your experience with the book over there? I was wondering if you found it to work well for you and how you used it? My t just handed the book to me and said that it would help with my anxiety and to work on it over Summer. I haven't found the time yet - been avoiding the issues I guess.
Thanks Sue