Do YOU think Bin-Laden is dead? [Archive] - SFWED Remember It Hurts Community

pageling

07-30-2002, 08:45 AM

I don't know, but for some reason I don't think he is dead. The thing is, he is still a very powerful figure dead or alive. My hope, naive though it may be, is that he would be found alive and brought to justice. Of course, they say there are others of like minds to take his place. Sorry for the negativity here.

:hugon :world :hugoff

much :love,
paige

*Lissa*

07-30-2002, 09:53 AM

Does it matter? I mean it honestly. By now it seems perfectly clear that the Bush administration has no intentions of ending the military action in Asia, disregarding the life or death of Bin Laden or, for that matter, the Al Qaida. They will always find new targets in the war on terrorism. And thus that war can never end.

07-30-2002, 10:26 AM

I kind of wonder if he ever really *existed* as the evil man that the Bush administration needed to identify as our so-call enemy of the state and a factor in the "axis of evil" (gotta love bush's rhetoric).

I personally think we should focus on what's wrong internally with our country. Not to be isolationist, we MUST engage with the international community. However, our country is plenty fucked-up, but I see the adminstration as trying to distract the public from these problems by creating a smoke screen of bin-laden and sadam "danger".

Wxcat

07-30-2002, 11:12 AM

Good point, kb....

Bin-Laden's livelihood doesn't matter near as much to the American public as the economy...Budget Rent-A-car and Vanguard in two days....I'm not even touching the Enron fallout. I wonder who or what will go next??

And honestly, how much of this can we continue to blame on nine-eleven or terrorists? We need to honestly look at how much of this was our own design so that it doesn't get repeated again...

infinitepiphany

07-30-2002, 02:23 PM

does it really matter if bin laden is dead? supposing he does die, another will rise up in his place.

michelle

pageling

07-30-2002, 03:50 PM

Lissa, kb, wxcat, infinitepiphany,

Excellent points all. Thank you for voicing them. I agree that, if the administration wants to, they will always be able to find a new "target". And I probably shouldn't even get started on how I feel about Bush's so-called "axis of evil". I agree that a long, hard look at the country and policies is long overdue. I have a question, if I may ask, what do you think WE can do, if anything, to be more proactive in the whole thing, or at least make our voices and opinions heard? Thanks for listening.

:love,
paige

dreya

07-30-2002, 06:03 PM

I wonder if we'll ever know for sure. If he's dead, his followers might not want for us to know (like, they might not want to "give us the satisfaction") so unless another, more recent videotape shows him alive I'll guess we'll just keep wondering!

dreya :pinkfishy

07-30-2002, 06:22 PM

Paige,

Thanks for asking the question "what can WE do".
Honestly, i feel that my hands are tied when i read about the fact that all but ONE freakin' representative voted for that humungous sum of money to abet the so-called "war against terrorism" (i actually read a really interesting article about how you can't wage a war against terrorism b/c being at war implies that you are fighting an official state and terrorism is certainly a non-official state - did that come out right? hmmm...).

What DO i do right now? I try to read a variety of sources and listen to pretty balanced media coverage.
I engage with my students and try to educate them about the world - make them curious and make them question the status quo.

What could i do better?
Well, for starters, i could quit driving my goddamn car so much! (i know, it's a drop in the bucket, but if everyone cuts back on driving, then mabe we will be less dependent on other countries for oil)
That's just the beginning, no doubt, but it's great to challenge myself to think "what CAN i do".

Wxcat

07-30-2002, 07:17 PM

What can we do?? The more and more I read and learn about politics and world interaction the more I realize it's a shell game of money and power....I'm not sure that we CAN do anything about it on that scale.

However, I can do something for myself. Not to seem too terribly selfish, but if my country isn't necessarily looking out for my best interest, it's high time I should. For example, my husband and I are working on our retirement planning now - there will be no goverment assistance in forty years, so we are doing little things that are secure (Well, as much as they can be anymore) like buy property for rental income, etc....

We looked at bit at getting into local government and making a change that way, but it goes back to the beginning of my post...good ideas don't matter as much as money and connections and power.

So I'm going to make my little corner of the world as bright as I can. Take care of my family, volunteer to help those in need, stay active in the church, raise/adopt foster children...I may not change a thousand lives, but hopefully I can change a few....

snoopynose

07-30-2002, 09:10 PM

You all make great points. The one thing that sticks out in my mind is that a lot of you say, "does it really matter?" That is an excellent point. There are so many mini-Bin Ladens ready to strike.

You see, I live in New York City and I lost a friend in the September eleventh attack. I just am so mad about the whole thing that it blows my opinion out of perspective sometimes. Like, sometimes I just want them all dead (all of the alq.) but I don't know if that would even solve things. there are always followers. :scared

:love Rena

pageling

07-31-2002, 08:34 AM

kb & wxcat,

Thank you for your responses. I share the same frustration of not knowing what I can do about something so massive and feeling as though my hands are tied. I really appreciate all you both said, and you're right. I'll do what I can with what I have, stay informed and make my part of this world the best I can. Thanks for your insights.

rena,
I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. Your frustration is understandable. The fact that you can recognize it affects your perspective is very insightful. Again, my symapthies to you and all those who suffered such a loss.

paige

Freaky Deaky

07-31-2002, 09:52 AM

Is Bin-Laden dead?

It does not matter--he represents the view of so many middle easterners who have strong religious beliefs backing up their views that America is evil wrong and nasty.

what can we do?

aside from becoming missionaries to the mid-east?
well--pray to whatever spiritual being you pray to. read newspaper to be informed. support humanitarian efforts in hope that the people of Afganistan and Iraq will finally understand that it is not America that is evil mean and nasty.

As far as this 'war on terrorism', I hope it goes better than the 'war on drugs' did.

Vanna

07-31-2002, 10:15 AM

Is Bin Laden dead?

I don't know but like everyone said, it really doesn't matter. The war on terrorism will and MUST go on. The Al Qaeda network is far more than just one man. I fully support the Bush administration. I feel George Bush is a man of God and will look out for our interests more than his own...unlike other presidents we have had (Clinton). This "war on terrorism" isn't about avenging nine/eleven, it's about stopping future attacks on America. In my mind, that is a worthy cause for our country to fight for.

I personally think the best thing we can do is pray for our country, our country's leaders and our men and women serving this country. They are fighting for a freedom and safety that all of us in the US have enjoyed. Peace is a wonderful prospect but unfortunately not a viable one at this time.

Just my opinon,
Grace

Rora

08-03-2002, 10:37 AM

I agree here with the "does it matter?" point...

Oddly enough, I can't bring myself to hoping he is dead...
Who am I to rejoice in another human's death?

I can't say I stand up for what he believes in, nor can I understand his actions....

But he, and all the people who believe in him... they found a passion in life, they found direction, they found meaning...
I think its a terrible shame that it leads to so much death and distruction....
All that energy could have been used to create so much more than pain...

But these people... They're dads, and brothers, and sons, and cousins, and gransons... They have family, they have people who love them....
Can I rejoice in the death of another human's son, or daughter, or brother or sister, or mother or father?

I don't think I can.

smileagain

08-05-2002, 12:24 AM

Yet... maybe it was Bush's admin who staged nine-elven....

Yes, I KNOW that most people don't want to except it... yet the facts are there.

He needed something to make him look good, after all the vote- count came in from FL the same day saying that Gore had truly won the election...

There are so many more factors...

--and to boot on the other side there is an anti-Bush vibe which will only hurt us if we continue to act.

henceforth, does it really matter if ONE man is dead. not as far as i am concerned.

Vanna

08-05-2002, 03:47 PM

Yet... maybe it was Bush's admin who staged nine-elven....

I can't believe I just read that. Yes, I'm sure George Bush killed thousands of Americans so he could "look good". :ohboy You actually believe that?!?! :ummm Whatever.

I find that totally offense. You just accused our president of MASS MURDER!

Ridiculous.

:mad

smileagain

08-05-2002, 07:34 PM

Just because he is president and is constantly talking about g-d does not make him a saint. Whether or not he is a murderer is for him to deal with... BUT I am still entitled to my oppinion!!

----

On another note, the entire thing about unity of Americans... the memory of ALL the AMERICANS who lost their lives... I never once heard anyone offering massive amounts of Sympathy to all the non-Americans who died that day... OR for the Afghani citizens who are inocent bystanders (for the most part) and who also live in a poverty-stricken country. Why isn't anyone advocating for those who have to listen to war... for those who have to see war... on a daily basis. Yes, so America got one day of Hell... I still think we need to consider our selves lucky as nation that this didn't happen sooner... AND even more that it doesn't happen more often.

Anonymous_Member009

08-05-2002, 08:02 PM

i'm hurt and angry at this.

my commrades aren't dead from a staged event. i won't sit quiet as someone turns it into rubbish. countless Arabians are not having to endure the shame of racial profiling because Bush set some sort of hate crime in motion.

I remember. I feel the hurt of an entire world that bleeds because of the hatred that spew from a small group of BASTARDS.

the dignity of the people who are gone need be preserved. they deserve that. i think of those in the planes. those in the WTC. those in the Pentagon. those in Afghanistan. Across the world - no family was left unaffected. the world was shocked and wounded.

and now i am hurt all over again.
you're entitled to your opinion, but frankly, your opinion needed to be put in another post because its completely off topic of this one.