Lawsuit against fast-food restaurants

[MentalElemental]

There is a man suing a number of fast-food restaurants for causing his obesity. He ate there four to five times a week even after suffering a heart attack. Yet he claims that his obesity and related illnesses was the restaurants' fault because 'they never explained to <him> what <he> was eating'.

I was just wondering what people felt about this issue?

[ajia]

is he kidding. that is complete and utter garbage. he sounds like he just needs someone to blame.

:peace :love

[dreya]

I think it is ridiculous. No one forced him to eat there. It's just another case of someone deciding to blame everyone but themselves for their own actions.
dreya :pinkfishy

[Anonymous_Member009]

i'm hesitantly applauding what he is doing.

he is not suing for damages, only that the truth be told. in other words, he's not getting any money out of this, he's only using his voice to make a point.

[KJoy]

personally, I say go for it. If people can sue tobacco (sp?) companies and win, then hell, sue the fast food companies too. Those companies need to be held accountable in many different areas. (Recommended reading: Fast Food Nation...excellent, well documented book explaining fast food companies from an ethical/moral standpoint.)

:bluefishy.

[Mully]

I think that people in today's society understand that fast food is not the healthiest food for you. Many fast food restaurants provide the literature for any who want to read health details, and many are now coming out with healthier solutions. You choose to eat the Double Double Cheeseburger, than you live with the consequences. Let's sue the car manufacturers while we are at it because of air pollution and the smog we breathe in everyday. Come on.

[lilsweetie]

what a stupid man. duh! who doesn't know that fast food causes obesity and that can lead to heart problems. even a little kid could tell you that a quarter-pounder with bacon is fattening.
I think he should live with the consequences and stop blaming the fast food companies.

[Jik]

Actually,

Nutrional information is available from fast food restaurants if you ask for it.

I don't see this as a valid lawsuit. It ranks right up there with the woman who sued McDonald's because the coffee was hot and the top didn't come with a label saying so.

Geeez,

Joy

[Cris Tina]

i understand his point. there are soooo many fast food joints out there that i wouldn't mind some of them turning into outdoor playgrounds, parks or predominantly healthy eating restaurants. i think nutritional information on display is a relatively new phenomenon. i wonder how old he is and if his position will be taken seriously.

[Cris Tina]

it's like what if every **** shop in your neighborhood was an ammunition supply store or strip bar, wouldn't you long for a more healthy environment, 'specially with eating disorders running amuck?

[SanFran]

I read an article about that this morning and I think that's rediculous. He said McDonalds advertised that they had "one hundred percent ground beef", so he assumed that meant it was healthy, and (I infer) that he assumed he could eat as much of it as he wanted.

He needs to talk to his doctor about why the doctor wasn't asking him about his bad healthy, not suing the fast food chain. Just my opinion.

[snookums]

Hmm.. what's next? Is he gonna sue the cows that made the beef that made the triple cheeseburger that he chose to eat, week after week?

Sheesh, any lawyer who takes this on should be ashamed for causing the further downfall of society, all in the name of sue-happy irresponsible people.

Did ya know that those sunshades that you put in your car windshield have a "warning" stating, "remove before operating vehicle". No shit, Sherlock. Do you think this warning exists to improve the safety of Americans? Nope. It exists for CoverYourAss purposes, because in this case, the company that makes sunshades has been bullied (as have most people ... and understandably so!) into conforming to the backassward rules of our litigious society.

People need to stop suing for every fucking thing and start taking responsibility.

Not that I have any strong feelings on the matter.

[Boeing]

:hugon :bowl :hugoff
While I agree that this is a frivolous lawsuit, I would like to make note of something related to the subject at hand: Fast food joints claim, "We don't force people to super-size." Not always true! :mad Yesterday a friend took me to a chain coffee joint. (I never go to these places except when my friends want to -- their coffee is swill IMHO! No, I'm not a coffee snob :sarcasm ) Well, the smallest size of drink they had was a "regular," which appeared to be about twenty ounces.
Forced to super-size? No, not at all...

[Wxcat]

My problem with this lawsuit goes beyond the food issue...

...it's more of a thought of when do we learn to take responsibility for our own actions and health and destiny?? We have become such a culture of if something goes wrong it MUST be someone else's design. God forbid we should actually have to...*gasp*...deal with the results of our own actions or inactions.

I agree that obesity is a problem in our society, and that the medical profession needs to wake up and encourage healthier lifestyles (as do the insurance companies who need to endorse and fund this sort of campaign) but this guy's approach is all wrong. He is taking minimal responsibility for the results of his decisions.

I truly hope he gets a judge who is tired of this sort of thing and tells him what he needs to hear...if he wins this, it'll never end.

[LostEarthAngel]

While I agree that :usa eats too much fast-food, and apparently have contaminated many other places to do the same......

DUH! Fast food is bad for you. Everyone knows that.

I think we have become a blame-happy, sue-happy society, and it's annoying.

Take responsibility for your own arteries man!

[Millificent]

I also saw a news item about that and think it is ridiculous.

:bullet As some of the other said, fast-food places have had their nutritional information available for at least a few years now.

:bullet Unlike tobacco, fast-food is not physically addictive. This guy has made the choice to eat hamburgers every day. He obviously didn't bother listening to his cardiologist's nutrition recommendations (which is a standard part of heart-attack followups).

:bullet I don't think that fast-food places have ever tried to claim that their food is good for you. So he can't claim false advertising, which is part of the claims against Big Tobacco.

:dragon Millie

[roashambo]

Well now I think I should sue the advertising companies for MAKING me have an eating disorder (fast food chains MADE this guy overweight and have a heart attack). I could claim false advertising (they portray these thin, skinny models as the epitome of health--just like fast food chains never advertise obese people in their commercials). Never mind that I have a choice as to whether or not to buy the magazines or watch the television that support these ads. Never mind that it is my choice whether or not to succumb to these messages. While I may not have chosen to have gotten as sick as I did it is my choice and my responsibility whether or not I am going to do the work to recover. Blaming others, the media, whatever will get me nowhere. You can only claim ignorance so far until you just look like a brainless idiot.

[drsharky]

I might be wrong, but doesn't the Pure Food and Drug Act require that you have available the nutritional information of food you serve? It used to be you had to write away for the material, but it also has definitely been longer than just a couple years that they have material in the restaurant. I have been diabetic for a long time, and part of my health management requires that I look at food labels in order to provide myself with the correct doses of insulin (I have to see how many grams of carbohydrates and protein are in the food I eat). On the rare occasions where I eat at a fast-food place, I ask them for a handout with nutritional info., and I have always gotten one, and that has been for about **** years now. I know that information exists-- it is always possible to do research and find out what goes into what you eat.
As well, even when you can't get that information (like in a restaurant with "home cooked" food), YOU CAN ALWAYS ASK what they put in their food. People have all kinds of reasons why they should cut down or exclude certain foods from their diets, and I have never found people unwilling to track down that information for me. Yes, they get frustrated during a rush, but they are never unwilling to do it.
I'm on the side that says this is frivolous legal action. You wonder why we have to pay so much for medical care and some products? This is it.
Just my two cents.
s

[Mimi]

Give me a break!!! I couldn't believe it when I heard this on the news a few days ago. Its a real crock of #@@*!!! No one forced that man to eat that garbage.....just like those people who sued the tobacco companies when they knew all along it caused cancer. Take some responsibility, people!!

[Freaky Deaky]

Only in my wonderfully silly-assed country can a man get time on television to say he didn't know it wasn't in his best interests to eat that slop every other day.

I can not believe they are going to give this man one minute in a courtroom.

I swear I will move to another country if they give him one penny.

However--a lifetime supply of free shit from these restaurants would be appropriate.

No--if he gets anything besides laughed out of the courtroom, I will, that day go down to city hall and file a suit against my parents for not getting me a pony. I will suit the state lottery because I haven't won a damn thing. I will sue maybelline, cover girl, and max foctor because their make up does not make me look like the models, and I too will sue Mcdoanlds--because this cheeseburger sure as hell doesn't look like the one in the picture.

[Wxcat]

Just a couple of interesting notes from this week's issue of newsweek...

Caesar Barber...the guy in the lawsuit, is only the lead plantiff...how many more goofballs are involved?? He states in the article, and I quote, "I had no idea I could be damaging my health". Sheesh

Next, note the strategy session to be held next semester at Northwestern University for nearly one hundred lawyers who are interested in pursuing more of these types of lawsuits.

ugh.

[rpinsc]

I find it amazing how unscrupulous lawyers can be these days. People want to blame someone else for all of their problems and then greed (or Lawyers) tells them that they might be able to get some money out of it. Everyone needs to be responsible for their own actions. Grow up!

[Catherose]

Originally posted by Wxcat
My problem with this lawsuit goes beyond the food issue...

...it's more of a thought of when do we learn to take responsibility for our own actions and health and destiny?? We have become such a culture of if something goes wrong it MUST be someone else's design. God forbid we should actually have to...*gasp*...deal with the results of our own actions or inactions.


Well said, Deb! I feel like people today sue each other left and right. Nutritionla info is certainly available, and honestly, even if it wasn't, how could anyone possibly NOT know that that diet is unhealthy for you? I don't think anyone needs to have that spelled out. I tink it's equally ridiculous to sue a tobacco company- everyone KNOWS that smoking is bad for you, it's your own decision to do it. I think this guy is truly pathetic.

[Freetobe-Me]

At the risk of sounding unpopular I have a few toughts and perhaps :challenge
WHile I agree that ultimately, we are all responsible for our own behavior, I think this man has a point. It is not that different for him to balme the fast food industry for his eating disorder (obesity) then it is for us to blame the diet industry. True, on some level we choose to succumb (sp?) to the messages we see but at the same time, advertisers both in the diet industry and the fast food industry make a point of using any means possible to lure people into buying their products. I read somewhere that fast food restaurants have even done studies on which colors will influene people to buy more (ie: eat more) so that they can decorate their buildings in those colors. Also, someone mentioned that food is not physically addicitve, but I do not think that that is necessairly true. Arguments have been made that some people have an addictive reaction to sugar. I am not saying that I necessairly agree wholoe heartedly with this law suit I am jsut saying that perhaps we should not be so quick to judge. To some degree, I feel that because this man is dealing with obesity rather than an undereating disorder we are quicker to blame him personally rather then to examinet the role that various societal forces (one of which is fst food chians) have played. And as someone said, "maybe I should sue for the diet industry making me have an ed" Maybe we should. Not that I care at all about the money that could be involved but it would be a way for the industry to be forced to take responsibility for the role that it plays in the prevalence of EDs. In the same way, this mans law suit may be an attempt to force the fast food inustry to accept responsibility for the role it palys in the increasing rates of obesity in this country. One more thing and then I will stop my very long ramble. True, fast food palces do not claim that their food is healthy but I also feel that they are not necessairly out right about the unhealthiness of their food. SOme things that onw might consider realitvely healthy actually contain a lot of hidden fats and calories. Just a thought.
I realize that I am disgreeing with practically everyone who has responded so far, i just think the issue is worth some consideration

Tina

[pooh bear fan]

i think him suing them is a load of codswallop!

[gina_rlp]

Okay so this guy had a heart attack....

Did he not stop and think... "hmm now what should I do to prevent it happening again?"

Obviously not... no, he went back to the fast food restaurant and bought all the artery clogging food.

Now THAT makes sense.

So no doctor told him to cut out the fast food?

Is he stupid?

I'm sorry but it doesn't take a genius to work out that fast food restaurants are unhealthy...

For Christ's sake take responsibility for your actions!!!

Don't you think it's getting to the stage where you can't walk down the street without infringing on someone's right's? By pressing the button at a traffic light might stop a car going through, which therefore may mean he is late for work, he might get sacked, does it therefore mean he can sue this person for pressing the button?

No! If the extra fifteen seconds really made that much difference, he should have left earlier.

This guy *chose* to eat junk, no-one forced him to. If he was concerned about his cholesterol intake he should have asked. If the nutritional labels don't appear, he should look online or ask for a leaflet! It's not hard!!

[Shauna]

Forget the fact he ate in a fast-food restaurant.

:bullet Since when did fries become healthy?

:bullet What about shakes?

:bullet What about hamburgers?

Ok, I could go on. I think (and hope) I made my point.

That shit ain't good for you outside restaurants, so why should it be good inside?

I can see if say someone gained a lot of weight after eating promised healthy foods they would have a right to sue, but most fast food places do NOT promise their food to be healthy.

In my opinion, my cat's ass has more of a case than him. :sarcasm

[Vicks]

this is my view, if this guy wins I am suing the diet industry for creating a society that promotes unhealthy eating habbits. I mean this. Like someone said about there being only a twnety ounce coffe avaible when she went out with her friend, I say "what about the diet pills ect... I see at the drug store being sold to minors and to people who don't need them" or what about unqualified people giving advice I am oging to suei them too.

And as far as food goes. Shakes are not unheatlhy. Fries are not unhealthy. Apples likewise are not unhealthy. Food is only unhealthy if you abuse it.

Vicks (victoria)

[cremina]

In my personal opinion I think that this guy is just ridiculous. I was flipping through the channels one morning and happened to catch an interview on The View with him. I mean GOD he just seems so ignorant and from what i heard it seems that he is primarily concerned with the money that he would be awarded. His lawyer was there with him and aggreed that it was his clients fault that he continued to eat the fast food after his first heart attack....apparently they are suing for not being made aware of the so called "dangers" before and that by the time of his heart attach his client was addicted to the food.....WHATEVER...just sounds silly to me.. He is not doing it to warn others out there. . . he actually said that he deserves to be payed for his pain and suffering. I think that perhaps this is just a guy trying to get some money out of these corporations....not to say that they are all perfect BUT really they did not force him.

I think its just ridiculous....i think that maybe as a society we have gone a little crazy and we need to start taking back responsiblity for our own actions. I mean yes i suffer from an ED ( working on recovery :happy ) but i do not blame anyone for it....yes the diet industry and all the mags and ads defiently effect me BUT I am the one that acts on those thoughts...no one else just me....

Perhaps i sound mean but i hope he loses cause it seems so completely ridiculous....

take care everyone
:love cremina
:bug
:butterfly

[Mully]

I saw the same interview as Cremina - I couldn't believe the crap the lawyer was saying about how it wasn't about the money, it was about the children! I mean come on! When the kids eat their happy meals (which are relatively small) it's not going to hurt them! Also... the money issue- the man admitted outright it was all about the money and totally contradicted the lawyer. I can't believe people like this- we, as a society, need to take responsibility for our actions.

[SuperFurryAnimal]

Let's take all responsibility away from people. Let's take away any idea that they have to bear the consequence of their own actions. Pathetic, blindingly pathetic.

Then perhaps we can go on a hunt for his lawsuit team. You'll hear them, clanking through the hills as their pockets bristle with the lucre gained form a stupid societal idea...

[Bilbo]

I have five words for this...

'WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!'

Or perhaps I should blame the mushroom growers for my anoerxia ?!?!

[Millificent]

Well, at least one judge agrees with us!

From the New York Times:

federal judge in Manhattan dismissed a lawsuit yesterday that sought to hold the McDonald's Corporation liable for obesity and ill health in teenagers.

The suit, which had not reached trial, sought class-action status on behalf of potentially millions of children and teenagers who buy McDonald's hamburgers, French fries and other products. The suit accused the fast-food chain of deceiving consumers about the high levels of fat, sugar, salt and cholesterol in its products.

The judge, Robert W. Sweet of Federal District Court, said there was no evidence that McDonald's had concealed information about its ingredients, and he said it was widely known that fast food, and McDonald's products in particular, contained high levels of such potentially harmful ingredients.

"If a person knows or should know that eating copious orders of supersized McDonald's products is unhealthy and may result in weight gain," Judge Sweet wrote, "it is not the place of the law to protect them from their own excesses."

He added wryly: "Nobody is forced to eat at McDonald's. (Except, perhaps, parents of small children who desire McDonald's food, toy promotions or playgrounds, and demand their parents' accompaniment.)"

The judge observed that the case raised "challenging issues," and said it was apparently the first such suit to reach a definitive decision. He said the case had the potential to spawn thousands of similar suits, noting that Americans spend more than one-hundred-ten billion dollars a year on fast food.

But, he said, "This opinion is guided by the principle that legal consequences should not attach to the consumption of hamburgers and other fast-food fare unless consumers are unaware of the dangers of eating such food." He also dismissed claims that McDonald's foods were dangerous because they were addictive.

McDonald's praised the ruling. "Common sense has prevailed," the company said in a statement.

The company said it has consistently maintained that the lawsuit was frivolous. "Today's ruling confirms that fact," it said.

The suit was originally filed on behalf of two teenagers who said in affidavits last fall that they were regular McDonald's customers. Ashley Pelman, fourteen, of the Bronx, is four-foot-ten and weighs *** pounds. Jazlyn Bradley, nineteen, of Brooklyn, is five-foot-six and weighs *** pounds.

Their lawyer, Samuel Hirsch, said the court had given the case a fair hearing. He added that he intended to file an amended suit in line with one aspect of the ruling, in which Judge Sweet suggested one avenue by which such a suit might be pursued.

The judge said that such a complaint could accuse McDonald's of altering its food during processing, thus creating an "entirely different — and more dangerous — food than one would expect" at home or in a restaurant other than McDonald's.

The judge noted, for example, that Chicken McNuggets, rather than being merely chicken fried in a pan, are what he called "a McFrankenstein creation of various elements not utilized by the home cook."

Such an argument, the judge added, "may establish that the dangers of McDonald's products were not commonly well-known, and thus that McDonald's had a duty toward its customers."

McDonald's argued that it was known that processing food can make it more harmful. The judge did not say how he might rule on such an allegation.

[mattsdancer]

the one thing i wanted to point out other than i think that this lawsuit is bull....is the way most of the :fishy were commenting on the food. i agree with :hugon vicks :hugoff Mcdonalds' isnt' "bad" for you in moderation....it's the ppl that take it to the excess that have problems. i think that we as ppl with eating disorders need to reevaluate what "bad" and "good" food is....b/c there is no such thing! :winky

[LizzyBee]

Can I add something here?

No foods are bad for you in MODERATION. Although I haven't been to a fast food place in.....I can't tell you how many years!

But, it was something my parents had a hand in. They don't like those places, and my mother is an awesome cook. My thoughts on eating out (heavily influenced by my mom) are that, well, why can't I make it? Then, I KNOW what is in it (like, no bugs etc :happy) Plus, it is a lot cheaper to do that.

I do know, that at least at our fast food places here, the nutritional info has been available for a long time. I can't eat beef, so I check where ever I go out to eat.

Positive: At my school, the kids are served nutritious and yummy lunches. Also, we have snack time twice a day (all grades) BUT the kids can only bring water and something healthy to eat, like fruit etc. I think it really helps the kids to at least see how they can eat healthy and enjoy it!

[rubygrrl]

Awww, this is blooming ridiculous - eat at a fastfood, as a consequence endure health problems, and as a consequence turn around and sue them, despite the fact that all healthy eating handouts in supermarkets tell you what is healthy and what is not! Now come on!

Does this mean that if I go out to the local pub, and get drunk - and then I am either:

(i) driving home, and have an accident, and end up in hospital or;

(ii) I trip on the road, bank my head - end up in hospital

that I can turn around and sue

(i) the proprieter of the pub

(ii) the manufacturers of the car

(iii) the corporation for not making the footpaths level, through the eyes of a drunk

It is ridiculous!

[sunray]

This whole thing actually makes me quite annoyed really. I wanted to share my own opinions and comment on some things, which some people may not like!;

:bullet I think the idea of suing fast food restaurants for making someone obese, is pointless, because they didn't cause anyone to be anything, we make the choices which cause us to live the way we do. Yes, we could blame the companies, yes, we could even blame the fact we ask for a small size, and their small size is massive ... but ya know what, no one makes us eat it, and certainly, we may end up with a portion the size of a mountain claiming to be small size ... but we're the ones who decide to eat it all, rather than just eating as much as we need.

:bullet Fast food isn't unhealthy ... PROVIDED it's in moderation. Yes, it's full of fat, which yes, can lead to obesity ... but fast food is just that, fast food, intended for people to be able to grab something quick when they don't have time to cook, or when they're out and about ... it's not intended to be used as the main bulk of someone's diet, and if it's abused in that way, well, what can one expect?

:bullet Agreed, they advertise in ways designed to draw us in, to encourage us to buy their products. BUT ... burger bars and junk food restaurants are not the only places to get fast food and not the only places which advertise; plenty of sandwich bars around, plenty of shopping store restaurants which sell good food, plenty of supermarkets which now have sandwich shops and prepacked lunchfoods ... and in reality, the money spent on a meal in a junk food restaurant these days, could buy a pretty decent sized meal elsewhere. We choose whether we walk into McD's or whether we walk into the sandwich shop next door ... and even if we do go places like McD's, there is still option, it's STILL down to the choices we make, for example; a plain hamburger and small fries is going to be a lot better for us than a triple cheeseburger and large fries. Especially if someone ends up in places like this many times a week.

:bullet People can deny all knowledge as much as they like, but even claiming naivety is far-fetched ... if someone is becoming obese and eating excessive amounts of junk food, it doesn't take a genius to work out where the initial problem may lie ... if someone chooses to ignore it, who's responsibility is that? I understand obesity well; mum was obese for many years, and I was borderline myself for a few. I know exactly what it's like to walk past a McD's, the smell wafts over, and wanting nothing more than to give in and buy something. The urge to eat is constant, the cravings are constant. BUT at the same time, it's down to us individually to take responsibility for ourselves ... the fact this guy had a heart attack, I REFUSE point blank to believe he was not informed about healthy living and making major lifestyle changes ... it's BASIC medical advice for heart attack. Yet, he's chosen to ignore it and continue buying this stuff ... that's his choice.

:bullet Yes, we could sue the diet industry for making us have EDs, but again ... WE CHOOSE TO LIVE THE WAY WE DO. If we take diet pills, it's our responsibility to accept the consequences ... the side effects/warnings are all there on the packet, in black and white, therefore, by taking them we are accepting the potential consequences. And if they're not listed, well, quite frankly, it'd be even more dangerous to take them. No amount of advertising takes away CHOICE. If we fall for the advertising, that's down to the individual ... no one makes us open our purse and hand over the cash, we do that all by ourselves. I'm not saying I'm any different ... I've used d/p's, tried them all, been swayed by the ads ... but I'm not sitting here blaming them for the CHOICE I made.

:bullet On the point about suing unqualified people giving advice ... well, if someone chooses to accept medical/psychological/health advice from someone unqualified, quite frankly, it's still their own look out on the consequences. While we're at it, we could all sue eachother ... we're all here giving eachother advice on how to overcome an illness - even if it's not medical advice, it's still health-related - but none of us are actually qualified to!

:bullet Obesity is an ED, just like the rest of us have ... so surely, just like the rest of us, obese people also have to take responsibility for their OWN actions. Nutritional information is available by law (in the UK at least) from all places which sell food ... either on the packet, or from the people selling it. If anyone cannot provide nutritional information, it's up to us whether we buy from them regardless.

:bullet Off the issue of suing the company, and onto the issue of whether this food can be healthy ... yes, the food items are not bad for us, in moderation. BUT completely off the nutrional side of things ... has anyone actually seen the way some of these places operate? A few years back, there was a documentary shown over here on fast food establishments ... well known ones too. Hidden cameras blatantly showed the way staff treat the food, ie; burgers being dropped on the floor, but still being used ... people putting the bins out, then handling food ... meat and non-meat products being cooked in the same oil ... food being reheated half a dozen times ... people picking their noses and carry on cooking ... people sneezing and cough over food. So I think the concept of healthy, even in moderation, is debateable! Junk food places are salmonella in a bun, in my own opinion ... the few times I've eaten in such places, I've ended up with diarrhoea or nausea ... I hardly go near these places now ... if someone chooses to eat there, that's up to them ... but there's no grounds for us to blame anyone but ourselves if we choose to abuse it.

:bullet I actually think it's quite laughable really ... I'm sorry, but some of the things people sue over ... it's like real life Ally McBeal :ohboy I'll sue the owners of the dog nextdoor for the fact their dog dug up my plants and subsequently caused me joint pain because I spent all afternoon kneeling in the grass planting more plants :sarcasm ... despite the fact I left the gate open :ohboy Or perhaps I'll sue the bus driver on the number thirty-two for driving too slow, making me late for an interview so I didn't get the job, am now unemployed and have no income to live :sad ... despite the fact it was my responsibility to actually leave on time :ugh I'm no barrister, but with the UK judicial system, I would seriously doubt it would even make it to a local court hearing before being blown out. I think there are far more serious crimes for courts to be dealing with, than someone suing a company just because they wont take responsibility for themselves.

It's a piece of cake to pass the buck, blame our environment, blame the media, blame the advertising, blame the companies ... easy-peasy ... anyone can do that. But the fact remains, we are responsible for our own actions, and the consequences it leads to. Influences are meant to do just that, influence ... we all have our own minds, so we are the ones who have control over whether we get sucked in or not. Yeah, we all get drawn in now and again, but if we do, we have to accept the consequences it may bring. It's our own responsibility to look after ourselves, no one elses.

So, that's my two quid! :love