thoughts on the death penalty

[Cris Tina]

garrisoned in and i see amarillo sol, delante de
razón (yellow sun, open to reason)

memories spill quickly, spill over (lanzadera:
la taza se ejecuta concluído) one as i squinted
my eyes—and the two men down in silence,
others shuffled off. quieted.
i watch myself, see that my eyes line forward.
i don't look at the floor. make the line forward
line forward
juan carlos won't let up on the horn. moving
forward a man in a suit (lino) grips steadfastly,
reasonably. juan raises his voice
i see an angel (carlos,) his image arcaico—
imposición, (man in flaxen.) he is brisk in
greetings. his face is drawn,
it is drawn.
i breathe in, expire, and breathe in.

[Cris Tina]

this seems to be an unpopular topic but i find the death penalty imposed by another to be outrageous/unjust punishment and what comes to mind is plato's republic. does anyone want to share — please don't if it's too much of a downer? i wrote this following gw. bush's second ok on execution of this federal penalty.

[lovtophish]

:hugon cris tina :hugoff

I agree with you, killing a person to punish them is no better than the crime they committed.

Gandhi said : An eye for an eye leads to many blind people.

I have to agree

Steph

[ajia]

i'm all for the death penalty. my only complaint is how long it takes to enforce it once sentence has been passed. there is no reason why a person should get x-amount of appeals, that can take x-amount of years each.

:peace :love

[lovtophish]

and when those x amount of appeals prove they are innocent? isn't it worth it?

Steph

[ajia]

there is the rare exception to everything, but almost all of the people sentenced to death are guilty.

:peace :love

[lovtophish]

true, it does cost less for us to keep them in jail on a life sentence than it does to kill them.


Steph

[ajia]

i think you mean that the other way around. personally (not to spark a flame) i think the death penalty isn't used often enough.

:peace :love

[Mully]

Ajia... I just wanted to say that I agree with you.. This issue is really touchy and controversial, but I'm personally for it. However, I don't think it should be used in every case, because of all the errors made. I think that it should only be used in cases in which DNA evidence supports a conviction. A circumstantial case should not be granted the death penalty because there is no definite proof.
Just my two cents!

[Cris Tina]

what when circumstances provide dna on the crime scene (without necessarily a crime committed by that party)?

[ajia]

i think i may have been a bit unclear on that last part. what i meant was that more crimes, should be punishable by death. so many crimes can be punished with life-sentences, why not also expand the use of the death penalty. just my opinion.

:peace :love

[Cris Tina]

and ajia, forgive me if my memory is miskaken but i believe the crime for which this man was executed was moving large quanitites of marijuana across the mexico/us border. it was pointed out that he had a violent existence while enterprising himself in this area.

[lovtophish]

ajia,

actually I've done a comparison/contrast report on the death penalty. It does cost less to provide an inmate with three meals/day and house him for a life sentence than it does to go through the death penalty punishment.

[fimbriae]

i think that capital punishment is state sanctioned murder, and i feel extremely relieved that, in australia, the death penalty is has been illegal for many years.

teaching someone that killing is wrong by KILLING THEM??? i fail to see the logic in that argument.

take care.

:love, emma

[*Lissa*]

I think there have been similar threads on this topic before, and I remember replying to at least one of them.

However, I will once again state my opinion, and I ditto fimbriae in all that she says.

In what way is state-sanctioned murder less of a criminal act than murder committed by a person? It is the same act, but in the former case justified by law. Right - so sometimes murder can be OK? NO, killing someone is NEVER OK, and should never be condoned, let alone according to legislation. In fact, a nation/state that commits acts of unprovoked murder is guilty of crimes against humanity. Unfortunately, some nations seem to get away with that, repeatedly, without consequences. And yes, I do count the repeated bombings of civilians in Afghanistan to those crimes.

As a means of teaching perpetrators a lesson, capital punishment is utterly stupid, because how can a person learn a lesson if he's dead? And it's obvious that it doesn't deter people from committing crimes, either. The only way I can see it, capital punishment is nothing but revenge. A very primitive act of tit-for-tat. Hasn't humanity evolved further than that? How long until we understand that retaliating a murder will never bring the victims back? That unless we stop the killings, they will never stop. (And the same goes for the "War against Terrorism" - how can an act of violence stop another act of violence? Terrorism won't stop until all injustices have stopped)

This is not just about capital punishment for me, it is about civilisation. Killing a person in a gas chamber in the US today, is no better than what happened during WW II - and to think that we swore it would never happen again...

[lovtophish]

right on Lisa and Emma!! :grin

[Little Fishy]

Hmmm... This is a tough question to answer...

I like to say that I am against the death penalty. Killing is wrong. Period. I agree a lot with what :hugon *Lissa* :hugoff said.

However, what if the person facing death had killed my husband or my mom or dad? How would I feel then? I really don't know...

Little Fishy
:notes :singing

[ajia]

these are some very interesting points you're sharing.

:hugon lovtophish :hugoff

i think the majority of that cost, comes from the time spent on processing the many appeals the inmate gets. again, there is an exception to everything, but it is safe to say that once you've been handed the death penalty you're going to die. appealing is a useless formality.

:hugon fimbriae, lissa :hugoff

it's easy to be on the fence about these things. i agree that it's illogical to teach someone that killing is wrong by punishing them by death. however, i do think that in certain instances, killing is justafiable. like :hugonlittle fishy:hugoff said, what if someone killed your husband or parents? what would you think then?

:peace :love

[lovtophish]

:hugon ajia :hugoff--you have brought up an interesting point which I guess leads to an interesting question( I love discussing issues, especially when points are brought that I may not consider :grin) The idea that an appeal is a "useless formality" once you've been assigned to death row is interesting. Unfortunately/fortunately(depending on your stance) the appeal process is a right given to us by the Constitution/Bill of Rights. Could/should we ammend those rights given to us? Should it be changed to only a certain amount of appeals being allowed before the sentence is carried through with? This could even be applied to those prisoners that have a life sentence but continue to appeal.

Steph

[ajia]

:hugon lovtophish :hugoff

i don't think that the appeals process shouldn't be done away with (just in case), however i do think that there should be a set number of appeals & a set time frame to make a decision. the problem lies both with the number of appeals and the length of times (often many years per appeal) that it takes for a decision.

there are many parts of our justice system (speaking of the US) that need to be changed/amended. in this case, i think less appeals & faster decisions would be a good start.

:peace :love

[*Lissa*]

Little Fishy and Ajia,

I had anticipated some reply asking that very question: "What if someone killed a person whom I love?" - but I think I addressed that issue in my post. If I were to want him/her to die bc of killing someone, it would be retaliation and revenge. It would not bring my loved one back, but instead lead to another useless death. Wanting to kill someone, or wishing a person dead is one thing, but acting out on it, whether in person or through legislation, is WRONG.

I further realise that my final paragraph might be misread. In order to anticipate it, I just want to clarify that my opinion is that it is just as wrong to take a life as punishment for a crime committed, as to take an innocent life. If anyone were to interpret it otherwise, it is not my intention, and if you knew me you'd see my point.

[Jen Ann]

I don't think that the death penalty, or jail terms for that matter, are about teaching someone that what they did is wrong or about deterring others (though that would be a nice side effect). It is about justice. Period. And sometimes death is the only punishment adequate for the crime.

I also am very disappointed that people who rape, molest children, or murder are EVER released from prison. Most of them do not change, and many go out and hurt more people. I don't think that we are actually very good at serving justice most of the time, nor at protecting the innocent.

[ajia]

:hugon jen ann :hugoff

i agree with you on your point about it being about justice -v- teaching someone it was wrong. i agree with you partially on your point about it not serving as a deterrent. i think to some extent jail terms/death sentences do serve as a warning. however, on the other hand, if we had harsher sentences & more uses of the death penalty (as with rapist, pedophiles), it would serve as a greater warning.

i think we coddle criminals way to much.

:peace :love

[PrettyKittie]

I used to be for the death penalty untill my mom asked me to read "The Chamber" by John Grisham (and in the process introducing me to who is my fave author) and I have to say while I still believe in the idea of it I cant truely believe in it for the fact that I would rather see a hundred serial killers be in jail for their whole lives then see one innocent man be murdered under the death penalty (and murder is pretty much what I believe it is.....state assisted yes but still murder).

I say take the people who should have the death penalty and put them in a room with someone who has been hurt in the same way as the crime that is commited. No killing but other than that the sky is the limit!

Yes I know I sound like a hypocrite :ummm

PrettyKittie

[Justice]

I'm against the death penalty.... Not because I think it is too harsh, but because it isn't hard enough.

Our death penalty now is lethal injection. Why? Because it's "humane". We have made the whole idea of punishment into something that is no less painful than a tiny needle prick and an enternal slumber. It hurts more to get a shot of novicaine at the dentist. Maybe if we had "real" punishments then ppl would think twice before committing the crimes.

Now before you get mad, I would also like to see serious treatment available for those individuals who have drug, alcohol, abuse & other issues. If a man robs a store because he needs money for his family, put him in a work rehab program and teach him what he needs to support himself. Help addicts to get clean and address why they are using.

Those who cannot be rehabilitated should stay in prison and only those who commit the extreme crimes should be put to death. In America today we deal with criminals in two ways; we kill them or we hide them away. I often think what would happen if we actually addressed the problem instead of hiding it away.

[Manic]

hwen I was sixteen, I worte an essay for my final exam witht he arguments for and against capital punishment, and i came otu with the top marks for me essay, and ti was publishe din a national newspaper.

:bug I wish I coulr remember a lot of the arguments, but the bottom line is I am against it.

:bugIt does not deter and more than life inprosonment does, as in america, people are still mudered like in :uk.
:bugAs for the cost, ti si generally higher to enforce the death penatly than to keep someone in prison for life.
:bugAnyway aside form the facts and figures, what kind of lesson is it to teach peple that if someone murders, a 'just' form of punishment is to go on and murder in the name of the law.
:bug time and money would be more usefully spent in analysis, descovering reaons, and preferrably managing to catch the killers sooner than just thinking that killing them makes everythign OK.
:bug As for it being 'humane', when has killing someone ever been humane. If We punish killing by killing - where does it stop?

I'll stop now before I carry on forever on this topic.

[Anonymous_Member004]

i apologize for deleting my reply. i wrote some things personal in my life that i guess i was not ready to share,,,,, i'm sorry