On feminism

[kb]

So, here's a query for this forum...

What (if anything) do you think about feminism?
Do you define yourself as a feminist? Why (or why not?)
Do you think women's role in society has changed for better or worse in the last decade or so?

[atina]

I have to say I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea of feminism......so no I wouldn't define myself as a feminist. To me it's doing just the same to men as was/has been done to women. Maybe I've just got the wrong idea about feminism though.

I'm pretty sick of the male bashing that goes on in society today......y'know they're not actually that different from us! In the same way women have been suppressed over the years so have men (for instance they've often been taught not to show their emotions).

I think in a way women's role has changed for the better, although now it seems as though they are expected to work and be independent while also maintaining their roles as mother/wife. I think things just keep being added to the woman's role which makes life a lot more stressful. There's not one girl in my sixth form college who's not thinking of having a career, and most want to be mother's as well (like myself).

Basically I think men and women should be treated as equal, with respect shown to both. :supergrin

:love
Anita

[Vanna]

I don't know if I would consider myself a feminist. I'm probably more feminist than not though.

I don't think feminism has anything to do with hating men. I also think that a housewife/mother could be a feminist. I think it is basically doing what YOU want to do without society telling you it's wrong. If you want to be a stay-at-home mom, go for it. It's just that historically that decision was made for women. We HAD to get married, stay at home, raise a bunch of kids and keep our mouths shut about it. That is wrong!

I think women's role in society has improved but I feel we still have a long way to go. I often think that women are putting more pressure on themselves to "do it all". I think men are still predominately the bread winners and women still work for less money and take care of the home/children. Maybe when men start to take more of the home/children responsibilities and women finally get paid what they are worth we will be an equal society. I have hope that this will happen.

Take care,
Grace

[slcathena]

ohhh! i have oodles to say on this topic...

:grinpad your bottoms:grin

i am a potical science grad student and while my emphasis is comparative politics, i have a :love of political theory...

i don't consider myself a feminist in the traditional sense of the word. The whole idea of equality seems tainted to me because it begs the question of "equal to what?" However i do beleive in female empowerment, and i think the theories that best capture this idea at the moment are:

:stars standpoint theory (the idea that ideals are formed from one's own perspective in the world and power affects them...stated VERY briefly) and reinterpretations of texts, etc. that derives from standpoint theory.

:stars difference feminism, (the idea that women can be empowered by their womanhood and don't need to measure themselves by male standards to attain "equality")

:stars i also, as a chicana, adore some of the black feminist literature...bell hooks :kicks ass! and think that there are so many issues with multiculturalism that are often overlooked in the traditional "feminism" lense that need to be taken into account.

So, that is my long answer (which was actually quite short relative to my usual comments on this subject. *blush*) i am a feminist of a different color, so to speak. (No pun intended...) :sarcasm

all my :love

[Cris Tina]

the terminology has always turned me off. i've reached for answers as to why. it is possible that in my youth i viewed feminism as the inverse of machoism and both to be avoided. personally i'd prefer to be even-tempered without sardonic bouts of my role in society.

at this point in my life i am angry at many people and in the attempt to transfer that anger to god (also established in youth as a male figure) i've become angry with several males within my experience. so i'm a mysticist -- or an empiricist.

the matter of women being of less power physically remains and it saddens me when people are hurt although i do appreciate a variance of forms and the concrete particulars of existence. when we speak on the intellectual level women have always and will always hold their own. in that respect change over the last decade seems negligible, however i've not studied it as its own topic.

[kb]

Some great replies!

I, too, hesitate to define myself as a 'feminist' in the sixties' sense - fortunately, since i was born after the fact and it would be a bit anachronistic of me to identify with that idea or definition of feminism.

I do say that i am a feminist, though, which for me signifies equality for women - that we have the same options as men, equal pay for equal work - and I feel that feminism has nothing to do with male-bashing. These two are separate issues, for me.

I think traditional feminism alienated a good percentage of the population and focused on a very slim socio-economic portion of the population, not engaging with the idea that there could (and should?) be 'feminismS'.

I agree that it does now seem that women are confronted with more choices AND more pressure to do everything. I, personally, don't know if I'll ever have kids and I'm actually okay with that. I don't think i need to be *everything* to prove myself to other people or to live a fulfilled life.

[lovtophish]

Great post KB!!

I have started to see myself as a member of the third-wave of feminists. I don't believe in male bashing, nor is it fair to treat men as if they owe us something....most of the men today weren't there to be the original oppressors of women. I think one of the biggest issues I have w/feminism is the idea that if you act like a woman(girly-woman) that you are not supporting of woman empowerment. I have a lot of "feminist" friends that believe because I wear make-up, shave, work as an assistant to a man, that I'm not helping the cause for women. To me that's bs...I do wear make-up to work or when I want to look a little nicer/professional, but I don't think I NEED to, nor do I do it because society says I should. Same w/shaving... I shave because I HATE having hair growing on my legs...yuck. and I love my job, wouldn't it be less empowering for me to go to a job I hate just so I'm not working for a man. Ooops...looks like I'm going off on a tangent now.

Steph

[drsharky]

Guess I'm stumped on this one...
Seems like everyone else knows what "feminism" is... includes "man-hating," "affirmative," "sixties sense" of the term, and so on. I should also say I'm a women's historian, so if you find me nit-picking too much, skip ahead and read other responses.
In the sixties, various women's groups (and men) debated what they thought the term meant. Even then, there were women who were separatists (they wanted only to associate with other women); there were Socialist feminists (they thought feminism and class issues should be considered side by side); there were liberal feminists (who thought that it was all about work and their notion of equal treatment under the laws), and so on.... you get the picture. I think my big point is that I really get a kink in my neck whenever I hear people talk about feminism because everyone seems to talk as though we all agree on what it means and in fact (just from reading these posts) I can see that it doesn't.
Me personally? I do use the label "feminist" to describe myself. Perhaps I should leave people with the quote from Rebecca West "I have never been able to figure out quite what a feminist is... I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat."
Sorry, I'm in a silly mood, but it does express partly what I'm feeling.
s

[adenab]

I agree in that I believe feminism is widely misunderstood as "man-hating", whereas I see feminism as the belief in equal opportunities for men and women. I don't define myself as a feminist, as I do not like the term because many people have very strong beliefs about what it represents (I'm careful not to offend people in my beliefs). Though, on the other hand, even though I do not use the term, I do see myself as a feminism in the sense that I feel strongly about equal opportunies. No, I don't shave my arm pits or legs, though by choosing not to assimilate myself into the teenage culture, I am often labeled as a feminist (in a bad way) even though I am not in any way making any statement about being a women. Women have made many gains since Canadian Premier Roblin Roblin said prior to women getting the vote, "I don't want some hyena in a petticoat talking politics to me, I want a nice gentle creature to bring me my slippers". I memorized that quote because its very powerful in its message, though in just the last decade, I don't think women have made many gains in their role in society, because equal pay is still rare, and there are a limited amount of women in politics.

[fimbriae]

i would definitely define myself as a feminist. to me, the term 'feminism' refers to the notion of female and male equality, in terms of equal work for equal pay, the choice (without losing out finincially) for one parent to stay home and looks after kids, and the de-emphasis of sexist, degrading images of women in the media.

i think that womens' roles have changed both for the better and the worse in the past decade. while women now occupy a more significant place in the 'outside space' - they are more likely to occupy significant positions of employment, they are also expected to accomplish more than their share of household responsibilitied, which i find somewhat problematic.

take care.

:love, emma

[*Lissa*]

I wrote a longish post on this topic in the Anorexic & Bulimia forum - go there if you're interested. But YES, I am a feminist.

[Vicks]

I actually have thought about this a lot in recent monthes. I would say that the true defifnition of feminism is "equal pay and rights for women vs. men" and in that sence yes I am.

But you know what I find to be extremely interesting, is that the feminist movement was suppose to teach women that they could be anything. That they werne't objects, that they were smart and intellignet. If this was there aim why do women judge themselves first and formost at times not by their intellectual achievments but by their weight. Also, somehow the movement made women feel like they have to "do it all'

I also, am not into male bashing at all. And many early feminists were like this. Now, I thnk that most people jsut want equality.

Vicks (victoria)

[drsharky]

Can someone give me an example of the feminists who have engaged ( or who currently engage) in male-bashing and what specifically that person (or persons) said?
I hear that term constantly, and yet when I try to read feminist philosophy or feminist literature it nearly always focuses on women, not so much on men (except to the extent that they have been guilty of discriminatory practices). And I consider that to be a fair description-- is it "bashing" if it is an accurate description of what people have done?
Also, if feminists do in fact male-bash, haven't men been guilty of various versions of woman-bashing? Think about it: blonde jokes, strip clubs, lots of advertising (that suggest women like being too thin or that they LOVE to do housework), sitcoms on TV that present stupid or gullible women, whatever-- it all serves in many different ways to devalue what women are often really like. It does not necessarily justify any "bashing" that has taken place, but I personally think the criticisms about "male-bashing" would be so much easier to take if men were in fact not guilty of the same thing.
Just my two cents.
s

[Vicks]

I am still curious tho why if the feminist movement worked so hard to make women valued for their minds, do so many women in todays society care more about how they look than what they think?

Vicks