new airline weighty rules

[lindsey]

I was watching the news this morning, and now it seems as though Southwest Airlines (in the States) is requiring people over a certain weight to purchase two tickets-

Isn't that discrimination?! :reallymad

Has anyone else seen this story on the news today?

:peace
Lindsey

[Little Fishy]

Yes, I saw that on the news too. This is a tough one... The airlines want to charge for the additional seat being used because they could have had another person purchase it. I can see their point from a business standpoint, but it could be argued discrimination against overweight people. I believe it is. What if the person can't help being overweight because of a medical condition? It's not fair to penalize them for being sick.

It'll be interesting to hear what other :fishy 's have to say.

Little Fishy
:notes :singing

[gina_rlp]

If its due to a medical condition, surely they can apply for some sort of benefit? I don't know how US health thingies work over there.. but it might be a possibility...

[ajia]

i heard about this policy on the news yestaerday. at first i was angry & screaming discrimination. then, i thought about it & now i'm on the fence. they are within their legal rights, but i don't think it's right for a person to be punished for any impairment. however looking at it from a business perspective, i can see their point. it's very touchy. still, i'd have to say that SWA, could take measures to accomodate overweight people, just as other airlines have (i.e.-larger isles, bigger seats, etc.). in the end, it all boils down to money.

[Sukey]

Excuse me, but I want to vigorously, if respectfully disagree -- that the airlines are "within their rights," in requiring "people of size" to buy an extra ticket. How embarrassing is that!

As I understand it, the criteria are, among others, asking for a seatbelt extension, and raising the armrest between seats. The seats are too small for a "normal" person. They are too small for me, but with the armrest up, I make it. Haven't had to ask for a seatbelt extension yet.

Airlines are trying to recoup their losses after the Twin Towers went down. I don't see that as a valid reason for discriminating against those of us who are larger than a Hollywood starlet.

[lima]

:reallymad
oh i saw this in the news and this is by far ludicrous. i also saw last night on the news that they want an additional tax to junk food b/c they want to stop the obesity in this country.
the airlines should make the seats wider.
how absurd!

[FairyFantasy]

i can see the points of view from each side. i think if the airline insist on raising prices they should be more accomodating to those who are of higher weight. such as, having wider seats and aisles.
it's only fair. for example, by law, the airlines are required to accomodate for those in wheelchairs or have other physical challenges that require special needs and seating. i think that could go along the lines of those who are a higher weight and need a bigger seat to sit in.
right now most everyone is paying these outrageous airfares, why not provide what the people need on the flight in exchange for these high prices?

[ajia]

:hugon sukey :hugoff

i agree that it is totally outrageous, but legally thay can do it. i think that right now, they are only enforcing this dumb policy if the section the person is sitting is is near full. also, from what i read, the person would only have to pay for an extra seat if they were unable to fit in the seat with the armrest up. btw- you are right, those seats are way to small.

:hugon karrin :hugoff

while it's true that under law airlines have to make accomodations for disabilities (wheelchairs, seeing eye dogs, etc.) being overwieght isn't seen as a disability. being overweight/obese is almost always seen as a fault. the person must be lazy to be that way. unfortunately, most people won't make a fuss & point out if they have a medical condition that causes their being overweight/obesity (if that is the case).

the whole thing sucks.

[BoxingGirl]

I'm going to be a bit of a Devils Advocate here. By no way am I descriminating against larger individuals. I have been there. I have actually requested to purchase an extra ticket, explaining to the ticket person that I was simply to large for the seat that was available.

Airlines do have options and acomodations for larger people. Certain airlines have wider isles, large seats. One can choose to fly on a more acomodating airline ot they can chose to fly on SW (or similar arilines) and 'pay the price' so to speak. If a person is large enough to need two seats than it is only reasonable from a business standpoint to charge them for that extra seat.

I have been on both sides of the coin. When I was much larger i needed to extra seat...it hit me in the walley but I do not deny that I would have been infringing on my seatmates rights had I not purchased the extra seat. This prediciment was my fault...I waited to long to buy my ticket and all of the more accomodating airlines were all sold out. Conversersly, now that I am smaller I also had to leave a flight because the person next to me was too large and basically sitting on top of me. Neither experience was ,uch fun but in the end I did survive.

Most airlines including SW, NWA, and TWA have had such policies for years. It is only now that SW has publicly announced their policy, that people are up in arms about it.

I am probably the only person in the world, except the airlines, that actually accept these policies. They are privately owned corporations and as such can do whatever they deam necessary. It is our choice as consumers to boycott policies that disturb us, just as many of us have vowed never to watch MTV again, anyone can also choose never to fly on SW again.

[ajia]

:hugon boxinggirl :hugoff

touche (sp?)

[snookums]

It makes sense to me that if two seats are being used for any reason (because there are two people occupying them, because there is one large person occupying both seats, etc.), that two seats should be paid for.

I once flew on an airline with a cello in my possession. A cello in its case is the size of a person. It could not go in the cargo space because the warm temperature would damage the wood, not to mention that it would probably get damaged otherwise. So it "sat" in the seat next to me. I was charged for two seats, as the cello and I occupied two seats.

[freddi]

i have to agree with boxing girl here....

the reason is that for example i am very small built (disregarding the ana) but i always have to endure people sitting half on top of me etc (though they didnt have to space wise but just decided to do so cause they were bigger)....that isnt fair....however, when, as said above, i have my cello with me or extra luggage i have to pay the extra price (in the case of luggage i have often had to pay more than the price of an extra ticket)

and to be honest, i am not sure whether our airline seats are that different to the ones in the US, but the only problem i have ever been aware of was leg room and not the width of the seats (which wasnt a problem for my uncle either who is obese)

people have to be willing to make certain compromises....and i dont want to slam anyone but there is a large proportion of people who are overweight and thats not because of health reasons

:love

freddi

[lilsweetie]

i think it is fair.
because it's also for safety. if they had people who were too heavy, and they took one seat, then it might not be very safe for the plane or everyone in it. Plus, if they take up the space, they take up the space.
It's like baggage. if you go over the limit, you have to pay extra for it. i kinda see this the same way.

[arcLA]

:bowl,

I think SWA is being HORRIBLE. The real problem with the airlines is that THE SEATS AND ROWS ARE TOO SMALL, not that people are too big. :mad I feel all cramped up in an airplane and I am not tall or overweight, and probably smaller than most men and many women...and it is too darn cramped FOR ME. So, what about those tall people whose legs are all over the place, sitting in the aisle row so nobody else can get up to go to the bathroom...??? Since overweight people are being charged extra, why not disriminate against all people too large to fit into the TEENY airline box....

lisa :love

[Shauna]

There is a big difference between a person who is overweight and a person who is of normal weight and has a cello. The cello can be left at home. I cannot just choose to leave some of my extra pounds at home.

All I can say is this, if I was ever approached to buy a second ticket, that question would NEVER be asked of anyone again. :sarcasm

[toast]

:reallymad :cry how can people discriminate like this??????

:love , toast

[Jen Ann]

I sure don't like it....but I have to agree that the airlines are within their rights. The airlines are in business, and they are in it to make a profit. As the proportion of the populace with obesity problems continues to grow, the airlines' profits would decline as they would have to either make all seats larger and larger, or give away more and more extra seats at no charge. But in reality, they would still make their profit....they would inevitably just spread the expense to everyone purchasing tickets. And I don't think it is fair for the person sitting next to me to have to pay a lot more just because I have gained weight - and like the majority of overweight people, the weight is certainly within my control.

I have personally been heavy enough to where I felt like I was too big for the seat, although I didn't actually intrude into the neighboring seat. It scared me, and I now understand that flying is a very difficult experience for heavy people. But I also think that we too often tend to make our problems someone else's responsibility these days, and I don't think that's an appropriate solution either. It is difficult and painful, but I think we have to be responsible for ourselves.

[Gracee]

Hi Everyone,

As someone who used to be a consultant, flying every single week on an airplane, I think I have seen my fair share of people of all types and sizes on planes.... I have flown on almost every airline..

I have to say personally that I DESPISE SWA. I could go on and on about them...but I think that their service is poor, planes are OLD and SCARY, etc, etc...the ONLY good thing about SWA is the PRICE.

Their prices are very cheap. Also, they are consistently the only airline in the US who manages to consistently turn a profit. So from a business standpoint (and I can go into their strategy but I am sure no one is interested...) they must be doing something right..

SWA has given many people who otherwise might not have been able to afford plane tickets the opportunity to go places. Last time I was on southwest I flew to Tampa from BWI for business. I flew with a co worker and BOTH of use flew for one hundered and fifty dollars ROUND TRIP on a "friends fly free" fare....

It was a horrific experience because I hate southwest. ...but my point is that it always seems to me that every time I do fly on SWA there is a disproportionatly large number of overweight passengers on the plane. Through my own observations, being a very frequent flier, I have to say that I have seen with my own two eyes this to be true:I don't know if its a result of socioeconomics, geographics or WHAT, but that has been the case.


I have seen many people in neighboring seats, be put in very uncomfortable and arguably UNSAFE positions due to the fact that their neighboring passenger was overweight or obese to the point that they could not fit into one seat. Also, SWA planes are almost always full, AND there is no first class, leaving overweight or obese people few options than to BUY another seat.

I think its really unfortunate that someone might have to be put in the position of spending double money but in my opinion that is the situation that they find themselves in if they happen to need two seats.

But I think that the airlines have every right to impose this rule.

Yes, there are people who are overweight and might be that way due to unaviodable medical reasons, however, they are not the majority. The majority of people who are obese or overweight could probably benefit from losing weight. It would probably improve their health greatly. Studies come out every day about how this nation is growing more and more overweight every day. The cost of an obese america does not only trickle down to the airlines, but also to health care companies and to the people themselves.

Saying that obesity in the US is a growing problem is not, in any way, descriminating against those who are obese or overweight. Its plain fact that is recognizable.

My intention is not to offend anyone here, just to give my opinion.

I really hope that SWA is dealing with those passengers who need two seats respectfully and with dignity. But I see no reason why they should not charge them for the space they are occyping. Mostly because they might jeoparidize the safety of other passengers if they do not.

Thanks for letting my put in my opinion!

Love :love
Gracee

PS: THe only airline with more room is American and I am a loyal american airlines flyer. IT REALLY DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!

[Mimi]

:hugon :bowl :hugoff

:ummm Interesting topic....well, I have to agree w/ several of the :fishys on this one in that the airline does have the right to impose this and it is NOT discrimination. I am a flight attendant for American Airlines :usa (:cheesy :gimmehug Gracee:gimmehug), so I am not totally familiar w/ SWA's seats. I do know that we took rows out of coach class to make the flying experience a little more comfy. And oftentimes overweight passengers ask me for a seatbelt extension bc their belt doesn't go all the way around them. Honestly, it is both a safety and comfort issue, not to metion a little extra profit (hey, they need two seats so they should buy two). I know if I was on a flight over two hours I would not want someone practically sitting on my lap. Not to sound harsh.....The airlines have the right to make this decision.

Anyway, I could go on about this for quite awhile so I'll stop :ohboy. Pure and simple airlines are there to get us from point a to point b while keeping us safe and making $$$$ too.

[arance]

if you need two seats to sit for one person, i think it's right to have two places then.

or even a seat and half: i dont necessarily prefer to sit in a place in which iìm not the only...


maybe ... as there are so many overweight people in the us, the companies should have more and different seats. bigger ones as well.

or you could always fly on first class...


on the other hand the weight limit for the baggage... i normally say that it's the same if i weight xx kg less than i should,amount and have then that amount in the baggage... that works :-)

[China]

Just want to say.... It is discrimination. First of all it is illegal under the ADA (Amercian with Disabilities Act) to not offer accomadations. The only reason to not offer accomodations is if such accommadations are consider to be undue hardship. My guess is that freeing up a sit here and there is hardly undue hardship in this situation.

Another thing.... I am by no means a petite person but neither am I that overweight and let me tell you those damn seats are not suiteable for the average person. Beats me how you get a football team or other buff athletes to get in there confortably. Personally I think they need to make the seats bigger.

I was just at a movie theater in Virginia and they had a couple seats which were geared especially for larger individuals... why can't the airlines do something similar? Cuz they are worried about lossing a buck!!!! I'd like to see how much they save when clients start suing them for this discrimanatory act. Even if they end up winning in court it is gonna cost them the lawyer fees which my guess is more then they'll get from charging for two sits.

I think I am gonnna like this new forum :O

[MonStar]

i think that its mean to ask someone to pay for an extra seat on a plane because of their size. but its not fair for the airlines to foot the bill, or the person sitting next to a large person to be in discomfort because the large person is squishing them in their seat. it might not be the fault of the overweight person that they are large, but i know its definatly not the person sitting next to thems fault or the airlines. we pay for services, thats the way freedom works, we choose to fly in a plane, we pay for the service we require, the airline sets up a service and we choose to pay, if we dont like the service we dont use it. i fly airnz when going to the usa,yes their airline seat are too small, the service is terrible the planes are old, and the food would kill anyone attempting to eat it, but its cheap, and im cheap so i get what i pay for. if i wanted the comfort that other airlines offer i would have to pay for it.

[toast]

if i'm taking my cello with me, i'd be happy to pay for two seats. however, if i was asked to pay double because of my size, that would be discrimination and i would be very upset. i do see points to both sides though.

:love , toast

[Charlie-ann]

As a Flight Attendant I understand why it is necessary to charge for the extra seat. It is not to discriminate. Yes, it may be upsetting for some, but it has a lot to do with the safety of the passenger seated next to this person. This will be implamented on all airlines come November ****************, I hate to put it in the terms that I am going to use, but it is like baggage that is not stowed completely under the seat or in the overhead compartment, the person of size that is seated next to a smaller person could prevent them from getting off the aircraft in the event of an emergency, or the person of size could prevent the person behind them for getting in the proper brace position in an emergency because their weight is not allowing the seat they are in to stay in the up right position. Some of you may think it is discrimination it is not meant to discriminate it is meant for the safety of all passengers. It also has to do with the comfort of the passengers.

There will be a lot of upset people come November of ****************, when this is instated with all the airlines.

Charlie-ann

[Chele]

Even though I am no longer anorexic, I still do not take up a whole bus or airline seat. I just happen to be "small"--under five-foot-two. So, I seem to be a magnet for "large" people and men who like to sit with their legs spread so far apart I think they must be acrobatic. I feel discriminated against because I have to pay for a whole seat while these peple are allowed to use part of my seat for free and squish me up against the window. It's as if because I am "small" I am invisible.

Just giving a different perspective of things here.