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little_phoenix
02-01-2012, 04:38 PM
Hi fishies,

I've been with my boyfriend for about a year, and we got engaged this Christmas. :whateva

Yesterday morning I woke up really sick, because I think I might have a flu. He always wakes up around six to go to work, but I can sleep in for school - my classes aren't until ten.
I felt really crappy and just wanted to lay in bed, and take some ibuprofen. I told him my period was coming and that I wasn't feeling my best, and didn't want to get him sick.

He still insisted and kept putting his penis near my mouth.. :cry
I was ignoring him, and so he said: "please" "please"

Then he finally got up, looking obviously really irritated, barely kissed me goodbye... went to the kitchen... and after a while he slammed the door and left on his motorcycle.

We have been having a lot of sex, so it's not like I am neglecting him. Lately, I've been struggling with depression, because I feel lonely. My parents are giving me hell because they don't like him, my mother thinks he doesn't make enough money and that he is half-asian - so therefore not a good choice for me. I am a white girl, and my family is really racist.

He is usually a nice guy, and he listens a lot to my problems.. only lately he comes home stressed from work, because they are not giving him a good salary, and he is there almost ten hours a day. I know he works hard because he wants us to get married and wants to be able to take care of me.. but all the stress he has is just pushing us apart.
I started seeing a counselor at school, but her advice was so bad that I stopped going. it was really frustrating for me to listen to her, because she kept saying different things at different times. THen she said: what do you want from this therapy session?
And I didn't know what to say because it's not like I have any idea of what I expect her to do for me. I just go there because I feel miserable and want to discuss my issues with someone.

I don't know whether the sex thing is just that I am taking it too personally, or whether he is truly putting pressure on me that makes me wonder whether I should want to get married to him.
He also goes out with his buddies, and sometimes comes late at night, after he drinks.. and one time he came at four in the morning really intoxicated. He always says that he needs time to recover from work stress, but I don't know whether it's very fair to me. I spend a lot of time at night reading books and doing homework, so he says that he can't do that with me anyways. I try to let him have guy's nights, go play pool... I don't want to be an obsessive girlfriend who needs him there every night.
But my dad was an alcoholic, and I stress out about it - I feel like he might not be the right person for me.
I haven't been really happy, but I still care for him.. and a break up would be just too painful for me. He is the only person I have in my life who truly ever cared for me as a girlfriend, and wants me to be happy. My family is at times very mean to me, and I struggle with depression and sadness.. so I really need someone there to talk me though it.

Any comments or thoughts from you would be so much appreciated, and helpful...

xoxoxoxox :touched

catsIlove
02-01-2012, 07:55 PM
If a guy starts pressuring for sex like that it is a massive red flag. I'm sorry you are experiencing your parents being racist though but the guy aside does not seem to be respecting you and your needs and is being very selfish.

sisserbell
02-01-2012, 08:19 PM
Hi Little Phoenix, before jumping to any conclusions, my advice would be to have a talk with him about his stress level at work. Many people, men and women, use sex as a stress reliever. I did this alot with my ex.

Does he know how your parents view him and your situation? Open conversations may add more stress, but in the longmrun will alieve alot of anxiety younare causing yourself.

And know no matter what you decide to do, all we have is time, so there is always time to heal and time to move on.

sflathinker
02-01-2012, 08:24 PM
Being playfully irritated and pressuring you and being mad are two different things. They say that couples biggest fights are about sex and money. But an argument about how often you want it and physically pressuring you defines respect. You are allowed to have differences in sex drive and he is allowed to be upset that you aren't on the same page. But to be angry means he isn't acting like a mature adult. Being a jerk means he isn't respecting you. As far as going out with the guys, if you have encouraged him, then I'm not sure you can now be mad that he is doing what you've told him to do. Are you sure he is emotionally ready for marriage? I enjoy partying with my friends and enjoy drinking and don't find it a problem, but I also choose to date men who don't see it as a problem. He may always want to have fun by going out and enjoying a few drinks, regardless of the stress level. You chose to marry him, which means you probably know him well, so talk to him about what his expectations are and be certain your expectations are in line with his.

Cypress
02-01-2012, 10:36 PM
He still insisted and kept putting his penis near my mouth


Is that his idea of foreplay? Obviously, he didn't care how you felt. He was horny, so nothing else mattered. He didn't care if you were tired or sick, or even if you were turned on. He expected you to just open wide and service him, no matter how you felt.

Forgive me, but that's no way to treat someone you love. If I were you, I'd think long and hard before marrying this guy. He seems rather selfish to me.

trika
02-01-2012, 10:38 PM
I absolutely second what Cypress has said. This is no way to be treated.

dermaline
02-01-2012, 11:56 PM
I agree with Cypress too.

little_phoenix
02-02-2012, 02:09 AM
:redflag Dear Cypress,

thank you so much for writing, and everybody else. it is really hard for me to know what is healthy/normal. I really loved him when we moved in together.. and it's not easy to admit to myself that I am no longer happy.
I really wanted to put work into the relationship, because I am not perfect and I believe there are things I will have to compromise, but when he pressures me into sex, I feel very sad and I don't want to be with him in those moments.

I want to talk to him, but I am ashamed of approaching the subject now.. especially because he always apologizes later and makes things look like they are not a big deal. He tells me he works hard for me, and that he is tired... but I feel he shouldn't be putting me on the spot for this. After all, he chose his profession, and it's going to be like this for his whole life.

I used to struggle with depression, so I tend to think I take things personally and just as I want to fight my negative emotions, I want to fight my negative emotions toward him.
He can be a really amazing person, who tries really hard to make me happy... sometimes we are really happy together and we laugh a lot.

but I don't understand how at times he can forget about me, and be so selfish. Maybe I don't talk to him enough, or maybe he truly is not the right person for me.

"He expected you to just open wide and service him, no matter how you felt." That is kinda how it was this morning.. and many other mornings.
One time I got off birth control, and I had to give him oral sex almost every day, because he kept asking for it.
Sometimes he puts his penis in my face, or he would ejaculate on me.

I am not really sexually experienced, he is my first boyfriend / lover... I know some people like to do that. It makes me feel really uncomfortable, but I try to accommodate him as much as I can.

Today I wanted a massage, and he said he would give me one.. but we would have to have sex after... like we always do. So I just walked away, and cried on the phone to my friend.

:cry:cry:cry

sflathinker
02-02-2012, 07:56 AM
Again, not everyone has the same level of sexual desire and it sounds like you guys need to talk. He obviously doesn't know that you aren't looking to have sex as often as he does. So long as you don't talk about it, he won't stop. Men are used to be being the aggressors and they are used to women telling them "no" and will huff and puff about it, but most men will be ok about being turned down. Be true to yourself or you will be unhappy more times than not. Ask him if he realizes that you aren't having sex to enjoy it but rather out of obligation during those times and you miss having sex for pleasure to show each other love. Relationships experience bumps, this can either be a bump or something bigger, how you both handle it will be the difference.

intrepidess
02-02-2012, 07:57 AM
Oh girl... Don't let him treat you like this! Sexually experienced or not, you KNOW how it feels to be degraded and disrespected-- and you know this isn't right, or you wouldn't be asking anyone about it at all! Decent, loving human beings don't treat their partners like animals or sex toys.

Never ever EVER allow someone to make you feel uncomfortable sexually-- if you don't WANT to do something, DON'T. You are the ONLY person who EVER gets to say what is okay or feels good or you want to do sexually. Nobody else has the right to decide what you will or won't do for them!!

Sex can be intimate, physically and emotionally blissful, fiery and passionate, overwhelming, fun and playful-- but it shouldn't ever be something you feel threatened, shameful, violated or disrespected before, during or after.... my heart just breaks for you, I know how hard you're trying to be "right" but please understand that what he's doing is sexual and emotional abuse... and it's not going to get better. It's going to get worse. Please find the strength to stop allowing that sort of treatment-- how would you feel if, say, your daughter was being treated like that by a boy? You would go into Valkyrie mode and kick some ass, wouldn't you? How DARE you treat my daughter that way, right?

Sending lots of strength and love and e-support... don't let him use you or MISuse you, you are worth more than that. So much more. :love

askinfaith
02-02-2012, 10:18 AM
I began to read this thread earlier and was so saddened and shocked by it that I went off to think of how to phrase my answer. When i got back here, Intrepidess had said it all perfectly and exactly.

mjseven
02-02-2012, 02:57 PM
Phoenix, intrepidess could not have put it better. You are worth so much more! Stand up for yourself because you deserve to be happy and find someone who will treat you how you deserve. However you choose to go about this, stay strong and true to yourself! <****

axi
02-02-2012, 07:18 PM
Everyone can be nice sometimes, but I think that how someone acts when they are not getting their way is the best judge of their character.

Someone ejaculating on another person when they have said no is sexual assault. Him saying that you only get a massage if you give him sex afterward is bullshit. He shouldn't only take care of you when you are giving him something. A partner should take care of you because he loves you.

You may not be perfect, but that does not mean you have to forgive another's atrocious behavior. You deserve to be respected and treated well.

bellydancer
02-02-2012, 07:57 PM
Hi Littlephoenix,

Differences in sex drive or sexual desire are not the issue here. The issue here is basic respect and his apparent lack of it. When someone wakes up in the morning and says "I don't feel well. I think I have the flu," a decent partner responds with "What can I do for you?" That person does not try to force you to give them oral sex. If he really is that horny and you don't feel well, he can go whack off somewhere. This doesn't sound to me like it's about his sex drive. It's about his using sex to exert control over you.

Your amount of sexual experience doesn't matter either. Some people do enjoy oral sex, both giving and receiving. But no one can enjoy it if they're being pressured to do it, especially when they don't feel well. You can't enjoy something you're being coerced into doing.

Is this the guy that you posted had the jealousy issues a few months ago? This sounds like a very disrespectful and toxic situation. You are no one's property, hon.

little_phoenix
02-03-2012, 06:04 AM
My problem is that I still care for him, and I can't imagine leaving him. He hasn't done anything terrible to me, lot of things are miscommunication. The sex thing was really big for me, but I don't know if I should be more direct with him next time.. maybe he just misread me, or really wanted me in that moment.
Sometimes it's hard to tell whether he loves me so much that he just enjoys sex, and doesn't think that I could feel hurt in that moment.

I haven't written about the good things, about what we have in common and how gives up certain things to make me happy.

I told him yesterday how I felt, and he said he was thinking about it all day. I know he is really hurting about it. He is a guy that had a lot of issues in the past, and can sometimes get jealous... but I think it's the kind of jealousy that is not dangerous to me in any way... sometimes I even think it's cute.
People always tell me it's not healthy, that he treats me like he doesn't have self-esteem..
but nobody ever said to me it could be love.

He is not the kind of person who would cheat on me, or hurt me intentionally.. I think that is why I have such a hard time letting him go.
I have never been a perfect girl, I went through eating disorders, depression... he brought a lot of light into my life. He went through a lot too, and sometimes struggles with drinking and feelings of low self-esteem, because he isn't a rich guy and can't really offer me much else than a whole lot of emotion.

There are days when I feel alienated, and depressed because he isn't hundred percent there.. and i start having doubts about our relationship. Like for example he goes drinking with his buddies, comes home late.. and I feel like he is the wrong person for me. But in that moment, I am being really harsh on him.

So I guess I want to know whether you people think he could be a good guy, and I just need to trust him.. and talk more to him about my feelings.

intrepidess
02-03-2012, 09:02 AM
I hear you loud and clear, little phoenix... I hear you begging yourself to be wrong, to be too judgmental, to be expecting too much. I hear you trying soooo hard to convince yourself that YOU are the problem, not him.

What I really hope you can hear in all of that... is the PROBLEM part. There IS a problem in this relationship. Is it truly you and your wants, your needs?

It's so hard to make dramatic change in our lives without something FORCING us to do so-- we tend to drift along, drift along, letting things happen... until we absolutely can't anymore. I get that. I do.

But please, please tell me something.
If your daughter, or sister, or mother came to you and told you this story...
What would you tell them? Honestly?

Not trying to hurt you intentionally is not a good enough reason to stay with someone who consistently DOES hurt you.

Could he be a good guy? Maybe. Would I tell MY daughter or sister or mother to hang around and hope things get better because he might be a good guy underneath it all? No fucking way. Pardon my language.

No one is ever allowed to treat you any way you're not comfortable with-- YOU choose what you will put up with, nobody else. You have to make your own decisions and make your own path in life. Look down the road. How do you see this relationship ending up?

mjseven
02-03-2012, 09:12 AM
I was in a very toxic relationship once and basically every person I knew was either openly or subtly telling me to dump him, but I saw him for all his good qualities and I thought they truly did not understand. And then, eventually, I started to see it too. On the day I dumped him though, it was MY decision and no body elses. I left for MY reasons and I knew it was the right decision. If you decide to leave him or even stay, let that be your choice.

Now, that's not to say you shouldn't listen to what other people say. Sometimes outside observers see what we cannot. But I know from my experience, if I would have dumped him just because everyone else told me to, I would have wondered if I had made the wrong decision and I would probably have gone back to that situation. It was only because I broke up on my terms that that scenario didn't happen. So whatever you do, do it because you feel it's right.

And you're right, you've only told us here about a negative situation, and it's not always fair to judge someone or a situation based only on the negatives. However, the negatives you gave us worry me. No one should be so forward as to push sex on you if you don't want it in that moment, and you should never feel uncomfortable with sex. Sex is about physical and emotional expression, but it should always be something you enjoy. He has no "rights" to your body, you should only allow what you're comfortable allowing.

If you choose to stay in this relationship, I think you should be more direct and you should probably communicate more with him, and don't be afraid to say how you feel. If you try to tap dance around it, he may not understand how serious this is for you. Also, don't stay with someone just because he won't ever cheat on you or hurt you intentionally. While these are good qualities in a guy, there are many out there that have these same qualities. You deserve someone who has these characteristics and who also respects your body.

I would say to read these posts with an open mind, really listen to what they're saying, and then decide how to move forward. I'm curious, do you disagree with what anyone has said so far? And if so, why?

I just want you to be happy, healthy, and confident in your relationship, Phoenix, which I'm sure we all do. I wish you the best and I hope you find happiness soon.

intrepidess
02-03-2012, 09:40 AM
"I just want you to be happy, healthy, and confident in your relationship, Phoenix, which I'm sure we all do. I wish you the best and I hope you find happiness soon."

QUOTED
FOR
TRUTH.
:love

dermaline
02-03-2012, 10:08 AM
Hi little phoenix.

I havnt seen the answers you have received as am on my phone but here are my thoughts.

I am not saying this is what is happening as there is no way I could know but maybe do a little bit of reading about co dependence.

Something that leads to unhappiness and unhealthy relationships is when one excuses bad behaviour by explaining it away or just re focusing on the good parts. And there are always good parts.
Even women or men who are beaten daily tend to focus on the flowers afterwards or the fact that they get given foot massages. It keeps people trapped.

I also think many people fall into the trap of finding jealous behaviour slightly flattering. I think it is very unhealthy on all levels. An unhealthy indication if someone is jealous and an unhealthy indication if someone finds it flattering.
No matter how it is presented people are not jealous because of the depth of their love. They are jealous because of the depth of their insecurities and self esteem issues. Him being jealous has nothing to do with you and doesn't say anything positive.
Love doesn't look like that.

People also don't guilt or coerce or blackmail/bribe someone into having sex with them because of the depth of their affection. They do so from selfish self interest and lack of empathy and those characteristics are very worrisome if one is in a relationship with the person.

Seeing bad behaviour as a compliment in any way is a dangerous angle to take. It seems you want to be needed but be v careful how that plays out for you.

I think there are a lot of red flags both in his behaviour and your thinking about all of this. It concerns me.

elfie
02-03-2012, 07:04 PM
Phoenix,
The icons you posted after some of your text really hit home with me
I got engaged in September and broke it off in November. I was not excited to be engaged, now i realize why. His tendency to drink and preasure me to have sex should have been :redflag red flags :redflag ages ago but i just kept dismissing it. When I tried to talk about the issues he either dismissed my feelings or reacted with anger which made me worthless and I would shut down. I finally tried to tell him that I was depressed and wanted the two of us to go to therapy but he refused so I left him.

I think deep down inside I always knew that he was not the one for me but I thought no one else would ever love me, what I didn't realize was that his actions towards me weren't love either.

I encourage you to think about all the things he does that make you feel demoralized or uncomfortable, etc.etc. and ask yourself if that really is the way a person should be treated. Maybe ask him to attend therapy with you but definetly go for your self.

Stay strong and love yourself.

:elf

little_phoenix
02-03-2012, 11:12 PM
fishies,

thank you for your insights.


Mjseven I don't disagree with anybody, because I think all of you are giving me bits/and pieces of truth. The only problem is that you would have to know him, to be able to know whether my story about him is right. In many ways, he is the sweetest guy that I met, which is why I find it so hard to leave him.
It is out of love that I want to marry him, and we have a lot of passion.. and a solid friendship.

I talked to him about my feelings, and he was really nervous yesterday when we wanted to have sex. He didn't want to undress me until it was really clear that I was okay with it. He seemed really relieved when I laughed, and told him I love you.

I know he is stressed at work, and stressed about being able to support me and make me happy.. and I think a lot of our problems have something to do with it. I learnt that sometimes guys don't think a lot , and we girls think too much. So maybe I need to communicate with him better.

He hasn't hurt me, or anything like that.

But he is not a perfect guy, and sometimes I don't see ahead in the future. I don't really know what could be. I just know that just as I had a lot of problems in the past, he might have problems with jealousy.. and might want to have sex with me at times, when I don't feel like it. But does that make him a bad boyfriend?

Yesterday, he went to get me cupcakes late at night, because I said I feel like making them and we didn't have any vegetable oil.
So he is like that, sometimes I don't know.

sunshinepoppy
02-04-2012, 12:07 AM
The only problem is that you would have to know him, to be able to know whether my story about him is right

That is true... only you really know what is right, what makes sense, what rings true. Your description of certain things raises red flags for US, but what YOU think is the only thing that matters in the end.

He didn't want to undress me until it was really clear that I was okay with it. He seemed really relieved when I laughed, and told him I love you.

That does sound encouraging.

maybe I need to communicate with him better.

Yes, it is hard for people know what we are thinking or feeling unless we tell them.

He hasn't hurt me, or anything like that.

It sounds like he has already hurt you, by being insensitive and selfish. That's the way it sounds from what you've said. Do you feel hurt?

Physical pain is not the only kind of abuse. I do feel a bit worried when someone says that because it is the classic denial response.

Yesterday, he went to get me cupcakes late at night, because I said I feel like making them and we didn't have any vegetable oil.
So he is like that, sometimes I don't know.

That was really sweet of him. But abusive people can be sweet too. That is the problem with abusive relationships... no person is all one thing. If abusive people were all bad, it wouldn't be a problem, it would be an easy choice to make.

I probably sound like I am saying contradictory things here. But I feel I am getting contradictory information from you. Which is natural. Good guys can be insensitive and selfish. Bad guys can be sweet at times.

All the feedback on here is interesting and could potentially be helpful to you. In the end though, mjseven is right:

If you decide to leave him or even stay, let that be your choice.

bellydancer
02-04-2012, 11:21 AM
But does that make him a bad boyfriend?

In any relationship, it is natural at times for one person to want sex at a time when another person does not. That does not make someone a bad person. It is bad behavior, though, when one person doesn't want to, and the other person tries to coerce them by sticking their genitals in the other person's face, or making them feel bad about their decision.

I agree with what sunshinepoppy says above, especially this:

That was really sweet of him. But abusive people can be sweet too. That is the problem with abusive relationships... no person is all one thing. If abusive people were all bad, it wouldn't be a problem, it would be an easy choice to make.

I had a similar relationship myself. The thing is that a person who is abusive or controlling knows when to be sweet. It's that sweetness that keeps the other person coming back. I had a boyfriend in college who was much like yours, not necessarily with the sex stuff, but with other things. There were so many times when I wa about to get out and he would do something nice and I would cave and stay and put up wtih it.

You're right that we don't know your boyfriend, but here's the thing that I've learned abotu relationships--people's behavior in a relationship when they're getting what they want, such as sex, isn't really what matters. What matters is how they behave when they don't get what they want, or things are not going exactly the way that they would like, because that is what reveals their true character.

little_phoenix
02-04-2012, 03:27 PM
thank you everybody for your advice.

We went out last night and when we were both having fun, and a little tipsy.. he told me that he would like to have sex with me at least three times a day, because he just likes me that much. That some people have a bigger sex drive than others...

I always thought he felt like having sex every day would be enough, because for me, it already seems quite a lot. So hearing those words helped me understand what's the problem. My boyfriend feels neglected and needs more attention from me, and I am already exhausted from all the sex we have.. and need more of a mental bond between us.
When I really say a no, he feels like I don't love him enough, and is missing out on the physical aspects of what would be his 'ideal relationship'

This morning same thing, he needed to go to work.. so he woke me up and wanted to play, and I just wanted to sleep because we had sex last night, and went to bed at three.
He tried to be nice about it, but I could see he was not happy, and trying so hard to break me.


I also talked to my parents about the wedding day, and they were trying to figure out when we intend to plan it. They want to fly across the world to be there, or at least to give me hell and ruin it for me. Everybody in my family is unhappy that I am marrying him. It puts a lot of stress on me, because they have never met him and hate him only because he is half-asian. He is really handsome, his dad is a white guy and his mom is a beautiful asian lady. But I feel that my family pushing me away from him makes it harder for me to leave him too, because he is the only support I have. I don't want them to get what they want, because all they ever want is me to be home with them, and break up with him.. since he doesn't live in the same part of the world as my parents do.

I am really in love and I care for him, but I think I am also very afraid of the commitment because I have a hard time trusting people. I feel like every relationship just turns sour in the end, and I didn't want to make the mistake of being with the wrong person. And now it is so many things that I don't know how to tell the right one.

Thank you so much for your comments.

helloballoon
02-04-2012, 03:46 PM
He wakes you up to have sex with him? :zoinks

Three times a day? After a year? That seems like a lot.

I had a boyfriend who made me think my body was some sort of servicing device for him, that I had one purpose and one purpose alone- to please him. That wasn't normal or healthy. And I really agree with everything everyone has said.

You're more than a sex object. So much more.

sflathinker
02-04-2012, 04:28 PM
I love sex, but I would not accept being woken up. I would consider that disrespectful. I would love to do a lot of things multiple times a day, but a relationship requires compromise. If he isn't willing to do that noe, he won't be a better man later. People tend to be selfish and controlling because they are. ..not because because they feel they aren't getting enough attention. Be happy, life gets harder. he should be your biggest supporter, not a source of stress.

intrepidess
02-04-2012, 06:51 PM
Gotta chime in on the SLEEP IS SACRED side of this issue. A lusty romantic pounce is one thing... an imperious summons for servicing is quite another.

You seem determined to keep trying to force your emotional perception of this relationship into the "healthy" side of uncomfortable and painful and sad and lonely and confusing and hurtful. That makes me a sad panda. I get that you have to make your own choices and follow your heart. I hope you find a lot more happiness in the future.

dermaline
02-04-2012, 07:44 PM
he might have problems with jealousy.. and might want to have sex with me at times, when I don't feel like it.But does that make him a bad boyfriend?
yes it does phoenix.
It doesnt matter if he brings you breakfast in bed every morning or has written songs in your honour. It doesnt matter if he kisses your feet twice a day.
The truth of the matter (and of a person) comes out when they are not getting everything they want or when they need to take someone elses needs into account.


so he woke me up and wanted to play,...
He tried to be nice about it, but I could see he was not happy Sorry but :zoinks After you only went to bed at three.

And deary I hate to tell you this but he doesnt want sex three times a day because of you. He just has a high sex drive. I am pretty sure v few people are not perfectly matched drive wise but that doesnt give someone the right to sulk or coerce the the other person.

And I have to say that racist or not I am starting to wonder about the real reasons why you family dont approve.
I wonder too if you are so caught up in a mindset where you are defending him and feeling sorry for him that it destracts from looking at the real situation you find yourself in.

Caring about someone - even loving them - and being happy and whole are two different things. A good relationship requires both.

If every relationship you have turns sore then you need to look at possible patterns in the way you relate to others.
Do you excuse bad behaviour?
Are you attracted to damaged people and think you can fix them?
Are you assertive and demand to be treated well?
Do you blame every relationship problem on yourself?
When the persons tells you who they are as a person through their actions and words then do you listen to them or make up who you think the person really is; only to be disappointed later.

little_phoenix
02-04-2012, 08:12 PM
dermaline,

you said some really interesting things to me. I excuse bad behavior, and I am attracted to damaged people, because I used to be a damaged person myself. it's really difficult for me to explain this, but the reason why I am with this guy is because unlike most people, I can see him in a really different light. He is an extremely beautiful person on the inside, and went through some really difficult times in his life. His best friend committed suicide and he struggled with drinking afterwards... and I also know he lives his relationship through sex, because he loves having sex.
I love it too, I think I am a really sexual person.. but we both have a different schedule, and mornings aren't just my time of the day. He is understanding this better now that we talked, but I am not saying he leaves me completely alone when I need my privacy. Sometimes I go into the shower and I want to be alone.. and he comes to make out with me in there.. or I wake up because he is giving me kisses and trying to get me have sex with him.

I am really assertive and I would never let things get out of control... but at the same time, I really care for him. He made a lot of things in my life better. My family condemns him because he doesn't make a lot of money and isn't part of rich white America. They were always terrible parents, my mother could be so hurtful to me in high school that I could never forgive her what she said. She is depressed, has panic attacks.. and everybody in my family suffers from her temper. She could scream at people at the pharmacy when things weren't going fast enough. She also told me I went to school to study the wrong field, that my life is useless.. although I've always been a really successful person in school. I just got my fourth scholarship in the last eight years, I paid for my college.. but she can give me hell about my life, because I am not an accountant or a lawyer.. and I don't like to wear suits, and go out with rich guys.

He at least cares about me, and loves me.. I really do believe that he doesn't mean to hurt me and if he got to read this thread, his heart would be hurting.

but I also don't want to be idealistic, because a lot of you are saying the truth. His behavior is in some way really dangerous to me, there were times when he would hold me so tight that I couldn't move.
We were fighting, I didn't want to listen.. and he held me to the bed because he wanted me to listen to him.

so, it's a lot of emotion between us, and I do know there is an unhealthy aspect about it.. I just don't want to walk away from it.

Cypress
02-04-2012, 09:46 PM
he told me that he would like to have sex with me at least three times a day, because he just likes me that much.


I hate to tell you this, but it's not because he just likes you that much. It's because he gets horny at least three times a day. It's not a sign of love or affection. It's a sign of a high sex drive, and that has nothing to do with you. If he was dating a different girl, he would want to have sex with her three times a day too.

The sex thing was really big for me, but I don't know if I should be more direct with him next time.. maybe he just misread me, or really wanted me in that moment.
Sometimes it's hard to tell whether he loves me so much that he just enjoys sex, and doesn't think that I could feel hurt in that moment.


He loves you so much that he has to stick his penis in your face when you're trying to sleep? And then storm off in anger when you say no? Honey, that's not love. It doesn't matter how much he enjoys sex, he should still treat you with love and respect when you're not in the mood. My boyfriend really enjoys sex too, but he's not demanding or coercive about it. He doesn't wake me up to have sex and he doesn't get angry when I say no. When he wants to initiate sex, he does it by getting me in the mood -- doing things that turn me on, like kissing me or rubbing my shoulders. He doesn't initiate sex by shoving his dick in my face. That's not foreplay. That's how they do it in prison.

So I guess I want to know whether you people think he could be a good guy, and I just need to trust him.. and talk more to him about my feelings.


I'm sure he can be a good guy, sometimes. Everyone has good and bad qualities. But the fact that he can occasionally be sweet and thoughtful doesn't make up for the fact that he often treats you very poorly in major aspects of your relationship. You keep making excuses for him, but there is no excuse for that kind of behavior. You think he does it because he really loves you? You think he does it because he really enjoys sex? You think he does it because he doesn't know it hurts you? No. He does it because that's how he gets what he wants, and he doesn't care if it hurts you.

But hey, he brought you cupcakes late at night, so I guess that makes up for everything.

little_phoenix
02-05-2012, 01:14 AM
oh no, Cypress.

I would say ninety-five percent time he is an amazing boyfriend. I wouldn't write this post if I he treated me poorly all the time, because I know it wouldn't be good for me.

He does things for me all the time, and sacrifices a lot. Like for example today, he wanted to go with his buddies to a concert. He asked me if I were okay with it, because it's a guys night. I said yes.. go ahead... and I told him to give me a pinky promise he won't smoke weed. He said he couldn't promise it. So I blew up, and left the house, told him that I have different values.
He never went to the concert, sat home all night to wait for me.. and brought cheese to do a fondue night with me. That's why i feel guilty sometimes, because I am also not the easiest person to deal with.. like today. It was a concert with his guy friends, and he didn't go because he wanted to spend the night with me so I wouldn't be mad. Now I feel so sad, because I didn't want that to happen. I just didn't want him to smoke.

There were a lot of times when I gave him oral sex in the morning, when I liked it.. so I also think that maybe he just doesn't really think I could feel that way. I think that when I said to him, he was really ashamed and sorry.

If I were to say why I am with him: because he is a thoughtful guy, because he always makes me feel like I am the only girl for him.. because most of the time we have a lot of passion together and we laugh a hell lot. also because he is supportive of me when my family is not, and doesn't hurt me even when I hurt him by saying some horrible stuff, that I regret the next day. and also because he shares everything he has with me, and is never selfish toward me. like today he wanted to give me money, and I said no... but it was because he knows I don't have a lot, and he had a good paycheck.
he has a good character, and if you met him, you would like him.

but then it's all the rest that makes me feel sad, like today when he wanted to smoke.. or when he wakes me up to have sex. and I get lonely and confused, and I am not sure what I am doing with my life anymore.

but thank you fishies for all your help.

dermaline
02-05-2012, 01:27 AM
Not all damaged people are attracted to damaged people.
Some people who do this come from families where they have been made to be the responsible one when their parents are not.

There are different types of "caretaking" but you may want to look into that. Did you look up codependence?

The other thing that can play a role is poor self esteem and coming from dysfunctional family.
That is because anyone is going to seem loving and good after the family environment and the person is used to accepting bad behaviour.
Children developmentally dont have the ability to blame their parents and realise it isnt about them and they learn to take responsibility for others issues. |And that can follow them into adulthood.

It sounds like you may not actually know what a truly healthy relationship looks like.

The things you are very grateful for in this relationship are just normal basics to any relationship.
The other stuff is an entirely different matter.

I am going to put this in big letters.
Noone is bad to someone all the time.
Even serial killers are often wonderful to others much of the time. By focussing on the good you are excusing the bad and as you say that is a pattern for you.

But I dont think you are going to choose to really look at this openly. You are still excusing him and what he does wrong. If you wernt I would feel much more positive about this. You respond to a post like Cypresss by spinning everything into a positive light. She wasnt talking about the rest of your lives together and was specifically talking about this behaviour. That mindset is a very dangerous one. You answer has very little to do with her response.
Every person on this thread is saying the same thing to you but if you dont want to hear what is being said then you wont. I dont mean that in a harsh way. Just a matter of fact way. Changes ones patterns of relating to others takes practice and only starts happening when we face the truth.
Did you think people were going to make excuses for your bf when you posted this? What did you think would be the response?

there were times when he would hold me so tight that I couldn't move.
I am afraid this has nothing to do with being in a passionate relationship. it is to do with someone having poor bounderies and self control and having anger managment issues. Every post you write brings up more red flags and you making excuses for them the biggest red flag of all
Do you have a t and what type of t is she?

One last thing. I wonder if anywhere deep inside this relationship is a way of punishing your parents and that the reationship not working would prove them right and you cant take that. ?

catsIlove
02-05-2012, 01:41 AM
Okay he may love you but really to me (maybe I'm judgmental) but the more you write about him the worse he sounds. He doesn't sound like an upstanding man you would want to start a life with. This guy doesn't sound like he has an idea of boundaries at all. Also you are going to make the rest of your life with a guy who after screwing up massively can't even go to a concert and promise not to smoke weed. He seems truly selfish and I'm scared for you if you want to make a life with him because like other people are pointing up there is red flags all over the place. The more you write another red flag comes up.

little_phoenix
02-05-2012, 03:31 AM
He told me today when he came home these things:

****. Because I am the only child and I don't know how to compromise

****. I am inexperienced in relationships and I am a child myself. I am selfish.


then he slammed the door, and went to watch a movie. :whateva


You guys are really harsh on him, but I understand you are just trying to help me. Lot of my friends are telling me the same thing.
I just don't happen to be in a good situation right now.
I absolutely agree that if you come from a dysfunctional family, it's really hard sometimes to know what is healthy. I want to get away from them, and my concept of love is very different. Nobody ever did anything for me, so the small things mean a lot.
Even the fact that somebody makes me dinner is still better than having my mother send me away from dinner, because she is 'disgusted with my face.'

I still think that if you guys met him, you would think he is not that of a bad person.
That he does have some anger issues, and that he might be abusive in his words (often telling me I am not good at something, bartending, roller-blading.. things that I have never tried but I told him I would like to try them).
He is also jealous.. and sexually really demanding. He doesn't respect my privacy or my own time..

add the fact that I am a foreign girl, unable to work in america, so I depend on school income.. my family is dysfunctional... I have a somewhat hidden eating disorder, I take laxatives quite often, whenever I want to make myself feel like I am thin enough for the world. Scientifically they don't help my thinness, but they sure give me some stomach cramps.. and body chills.. and for many many years I haven't been able to tell anyone that I still have this problem.

I went to a school therapist, because I thought she could help me.. but it really didn't help at all. She confused me, and she said to me at one time that he could be 'an emotionally dependent person' who 'will drop me once his passion for me ends.'

So I never went back, and I ended up talking to friends and getting help from them.


I don't know how I still manage to get scholarships at school, and how people think my life is cherry. about a hundred people congratulated us to the engagement on facebook, and i felt like I am part of something for once in my life.


antidepressants - I have tried them in the past, and it was a disaster... I also tried painting as therapy, various psychologists.. nothing helped. I am scared that if I leave him, I will miss him a lot, because yes - I am probably also codependent, as you guys told me to google. I have a hard time letting people go, just as I have a hard time getting to know them.

People tell me I am beautiful, and could have any guy.. but it's never proved itself in real life, because nobody ever cared for me enough to want to date me... and I never really loved anyone this much as I love him.

Love is still a really beautiful feeling, and it gives a lot of things a meaning. I for sure know he is not a bad person, and i know he would never hit me/rape me/hurt me.. or do anything that would me disrespectful to me. I know he loves me too, because he changed a lot for me.. and I think I am the first girl who made him really want to be a better person.

Fishies, I am sorry for posting such long posts. Thank you everybody for your care. I :ear to everything you guys say, and I remember it when I make my decisions. You guys are better than any therapist I could have.

WarriorSheep
02-05-2012, 04:33 AM
Hey I am sorry if I am being repetitive. I wanted to reply but I could read all the posts due to the nature of the subject.

If you say no he should respect that.
No means no.
A person who truly cares about you, your happiness, etc. will stop when you say no.
I cannot stress this enough.

I had a boyfriend...who I guess I was actually engaged to... who kept pressuring me. He sounds a lot like your fiance in that regards. I usually ended up giving in. The pressure from it left me with flashbacks and other things. It will build and build. You may think it is a "little" thing not "big" like a rape... but I can tell you from experience that it can be worse.

I am not saying this to be harsh towards him.
I am saying this to protect you and help you realize.

My husband listens when I say no or when he recognizes other things going on. That is the end of it - no pressure. Having this makes me realize how insensitive, wrong, and selfish my ex was.

Would it help to think of this in terms of your friend... if all this was happening to your closest friend or sibling, what would you say? How would you feel?

Have you been with a guy who has fully respected you sexually?

sprout
02-05-2012, 11:37 AM
Little Phoenix,

Sorry if you've said this before but, how old are you and how old is he?
How long have you been dating?
Do you have a date set to be married?

Like the other fish, I think there are a lot of red flags in his behavior. But I also think your response to the red flags and to the other fishies is also concerning, and the fact that you are attracted to damaged people, and that is one of the reasons you want to be with him.

It sounds like you both have a lot of work to do individually before it would be wise to think about making a committment as serious as marriage.

Is there any rush? Could you take some time and see a therapist, as well as maybe go to couples counseling?
:love

mjseven
02-05-2012, 01:13 PM
I can understand why you feel we're being harsh on him, but as you and many have said, we all care deeply for your emotional and physical well-being. I know that, even though I will probably never meet you, I want you to be with someone that makes you the best "you" that you can be. I want you to be happy and confident that this relationship is exactly what you want and what is best for you.

Now, as for something you said earlier about people saying you are beautiful and you can get anyone you want. I know you said people haven't really asked you out, but have you ever thought that your looks and personality/characteristics intimidate men? (And I mean that as a compliment to you, as in you're so beautiful that men are instantly shy). That maybe you are so beautiful and have such an outwardly confident personality that men look at you and think, "there's no WAY she'd even look at me twice!" It may sound crazy, but guys are shy too, and it's possible that you intimidate them, albeit unintentionally. The reason I say this is because I would hate to see you stay with someone just because you think no one else will ever ask you out, love you, and/or truly care for you. I guess what I'm saying is don't stay with someone only because you care for them and you're afraid of the breakup. Stay with someone because they make you happy, because they love you for all the right reasons, because they support you whenever you need them, because they're your best friend, and because they want to be with you so badly that they will compromise what they want just to see you smile. That's what I want for you, sweetie, honestly and truly.

You are the one that has to live with your decision, none of us do, so you have to make this decision for you and you only. Just make sure this decision is what is best for you emotionally and physically. And remember, even if you choose to stay now, that doesn't mean you have to stay forever. And there's nothing wrong with regularly evaluating your relationship, phoenix, especially if you have doubts. I wish you all the best, I really do.

little_phoenix
02-05-2012, 03:26 PM
i gave him his engagement ring back last night, because I really wasn't happy. I understood all of you, and what you were trying to tell me.. my friends always tell me: "I want to shake you, so you would see things in a different light."

He left the house, texted me like an hour later:
I am sitting by the ocean, while trying to figure out how to make the woman, whom I desperately love, happy. I am drinking Perrier (mineral water) and thought you should know where I am if you wanted to come.

I was already in the shower, with my hair wet.. so I didn't go over, but I wrote to him I was sorry ruining his night, and that he should come home and get some sleep
So we went to bed, not really talking.

We didn't have a marriage date set yet, but if we don't get married this year, I won't be able to stay with him and I will have to take this job in italy.
we've been together for two years, but we met five years ago.. but didn't know much about each other for a long time.

he is my best friend, although we are very different people.. and I think I am starting to hurt him because I want things from him he can't give me. He told me he wanted to relax with simple people, smoke some weed with his friends.. because he is just a normal guy with faults.. and was really sad because he couldn't go to the concert.
I felt bad, but I also felt excluded that he didn't want to take me.. and that he couldn't give me a pinky promise to stay away from smoking illegal substances.


but sometimes I feel it's all my fault, that I am too hard on him, and that what I really need to do is pack my things and leave.

so i gave him the engagement ring, and right now i am looking up new places to live. this might be the hardest thing I've ever done in my life, because I know I will never forget our times together and how he made me happy at times. and I know I will really miss him.

bellydancer
02-05-2012, 03:52 PM
Hi LittleP,

I'm sure that giving him the ring was very difficult to do. I broke off an engagement once, and even though it was the hardest decision I've ever made, it was also one of the best.

I didn't get a chance to respond to your reply previous to this one. You're right that I don't know the guy, but the fact that your friends who know the both of you are telling you similar things makes me think that those of us here are not wrong. Despite this any decision you make has to be yours.

The key to my concerns over the way he treats you is that it demonstrates a lack of respect and basic boundaries. If someone can't practice these in a relationship, then the little things don't really matter. I know that a lot of people say "It's the little things that matter," and to an extent, that's true. But not when you're looking only at the little things and ignoring the big elephant that's pooping in the corner.

It might be possible that he could overcome these issues, if he is willing to work on them. That means being very honest with what you're feeling, and how his actions make you feel. But other than that, it is totally his responsibility to fix.

dermaline
02-05-2012, 07:40 PM
I think you are being very brave. And that gives a lot of hope for your future life.

I totally agree with what Bellydancer said.
I do think that if you wanted to pursue this relationship that both of you need t and to sort out your stuff first. Separately.

People can change but only if they really want to and only if they are able to acknowledge the problems in the first place. If he went for t and went to an anger management course then things could change in the future.

I also would suggest that you need to get back into t for your own happiness's sake. Do you think you left the last t because you didn't like what she said about your bf?

It may really help you to do t for the ed; your past family stuff; self esteem and the patterns in your life that push you into unhealthy situations. When you heal those things you will find life works out and plays out totally differently.

If t hasn't worked before then you need to think why it wasn't working for you.

Were you being honest about your feelings or pretending to be ok?
Where you willing to try things when the t suggested them or would you resist?
If the t said something that upset you did you tell them and discuss it?
Did you work hard between sessions and try to make things change?
Did you think the t's role was to fix you or did you take responsibility for that and use the t as a support?
Do you look at books or do any work on your own to get better?

Some things to think about.

little_phoenix
02-06-2012, 12:45 AM
Well, the first thing that she did.. my therapist.. she said in the middle of the session: how can I help you?

I really don't know what to say to that, it's not like there is a goal for therapy, sometimes people just go to discuss their problems. If I were anorexic, I could tell her I want to improve my eating habits.. but with boyfriend issues, it's not like there is a goal.

Another thing that irritated me about her was that she listened to some major problems I had with him.. like him pushing me to the bed, and holding me tight.. and almost breaking my phone. And she never pointed out to me that this is unhealthy behavior and didn't encourage me to stand up for myself. She just listened to it, and told me to draw a blueprint of his/and my house.. and whether they would be the same.

I wanted to tell her that it's not about the house, because if people love each other, they can compromise. My problem was that he had issues with smoking, alcohol.. and he treated me without respect, although not being aware of how much it was hurting me.
The reason why I know this is because he tries really hard every time he messes up to change. Today, he missed the Superbowl just because he wanted to listen to me.. and I know he really wanted to see the match. We saw only the second half because he made me a priority.

Also, my parents are wrong - and they are very unhealthy people. I don't think my relationship is a revenge. It's not even a statement. I fell in love with him and wanted to be with him, regardless of them. My mother emailed him that he shouldn't be with me, because of his cultural roots.
He is supportive of me, unlike my family is. He wants me to apply to my doctoral program, and be happy.. my parents just tell me that the world is going to end tomorrow, that I am a loser.. that I study the wrong field, and that I they regret giving birth to me (my mom actually said it once).
So it really isn't revenge, I call them every week to talk to them, and sometimes I just want to give up on being nice.. and tell them I hate their racist view of the world. My mother wants all Jews to be dead, and all Asian people to be poisoned... she hates gay people, and she hates poor people who work blue collar jobs.

Books - I read them all the time, but I am not even sure what subject should I pick to read them on. I read a book about abusive behavior one time, but my boyfriend is far from that description. Yes, he can be selfish at some time, but I can be that too.
He also told me that if I woke up early morning, he would get up for me to eat breakfast for me. So maybe it's also a difference in views.. because he works all day, and would like to cuddle and have sex in the morning.

I am really honest about my feelings, and I know I am very much in love with him. It's why I wrote this thread.
I also don't think I have low self-esteem, but a lot of people tell me that, because they want to argue that he is not a good person for me. I value myself a lot, but I also see that I am not perfect, and that sometimes I am too hard on people.

Like this weekend, he never made it to the concert, he missed Superbowl.. and he didn't say a single thing against that. And I feel like maybe I overreacted, and was too hard on him.
I am glad however that I did say something, and hopefully it will make our relationship better in the long run. If not, then I guess it will be time to leave?

thank you all so much.

catsIlove
02-06-2012, 01:14 AM
Aside from abusive bahaviour or not will he logically make a good life partner. You say that he supports you in getting a doctorate but will be able to actually provide financial support while you are getting it. He does not sound like a very stable person at. I would definately put marriage off the table until he can prove himself. From what he sounds like you will have to seriously consider what you want out of life.
Nobody can decide for you it is basically your decision what you want out of life. Therapists have a fine line to walk when talking about boyfriends because so many people break up than get back together so they probably don't know what to say. It may not be textbook abuse but he is not respecting you all. If you are going to marriage someone you should not have to look at a textbook to figure out if they are abusive. If you know they don't respect you that is enough.

dermaline
02-08-2012, 07:20 PM
You have just gone into the same pattern again. Pointing out something that he has done that is concerning and then spending the rest of the post excusing. it. Can you see that?

I imagine you would have done this in t as well. Followed the same pattern. In that case I can totally understand why the t asked you that. In a way I imagine some people are thinking that on here.

I think you would be upset if we didnt disapprove of behaviour that is not acceptable and yet you spend almost all your energy excusing it. The mixed messages are extreme and could majorly effect how a t responds to you.

I really think you need to go back to t for you. you need to get you healthy before you can think of having a healthy relationship. There is no point me discussing your bf further as it seems to have come around full circle and be right back at the beginning again.

Take care.