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axi
11-26-2010, 04:09 PM
For the fishies who don't know know me well, I am married, but my marriage is very troubled and my husband refuses to acknowledge the problem or work on it. It's kind of at a stalemate now and I've run out of ideas to fix it.

I have a male friend that I've become close to and I've realized that it's become too close and I'm starting to flounder. It's not him: he is lovely and respectful. I can see where the trouble comes from. I don't have supportive people in my life and he is very supportive. He listens to me and remembers things in my life and is generally very considerate of my feelings. Obviously with my husband and even my family, I don't get that at all in my life. I'm usually fairly stand-offish with people and do not let them get close. I am polite and friendly, but only to a certain point, but we clicked somehow and wound up close friends.

The trouble is that I am seeing him as more than a friend and I thought I was hiding it well, but I think it's starting to seep out. We usually talk on certain days of the week, but he's been busy at work and I am feeling insecure, over sensitive and out of sorts and I actually asked him if he was avoiding me which isn't like me at all. :ohboy He seemed honestly puzzled about it, so I don't think he was.

Part of me wants to push him away and part of me wants to cling and I am having trouble figuring out how to act. I don't want to lose the friendship as it's important to me and I really don't want to tell him what I am feeling because it would be very embarrassing to admit it. I feel like I'm an adult and should be able to control my feelings and reactions to him.

I think I'm also having trouble with it because it feels like another rejection, even though logically I know it's not. But in my life it feels like that is how it's always gone: my family didn't want me, my husband doesn't want me and now I can't even have a friend without screwing this up by wanting more than he does, too. I just feel so screwed up right now.

EsteemSpinner
11-26-2010, 04:35 PM
Hi Axi - sounds like you are in a very troubled marriage - where does that leave you? The best thing would be if your husband and you could be close and have good communication - is there anything you can do to make the relationship better or have you given up on your husband completely? If you've given up on the relationship why stay in it? Are you still hoping something is going to get better? If your husband doesn't want you why is he with you?
With this other man - sounds like you are just craving some intimacy and attention which your husband should be giving you - everyone wants to feel wanted -
You're not screwed up it's not easy to be in a difficult relationship - I guess I know because I'm in one myself right now -
The point is you have to know how much you are compromising and if it's worth it for you and how long you can do that...
You're in a tough situation and I don't envy it -

axi
11-27-2010, 01:06 AM
I have spent years trying to fix my marriage and talk to my husband about our issues, but he always says he will work on it, but never does. I love him, but I can't keep living like this. It is one thing that has kept me in my ed (though I am not blaming him, ed is my issue) because I know that a healthy person would not stay in a relationship like this, so getting better means facing that my marriage will likely end.

I am still here because I do love him and he says he loves me, we have a child and it is not easy to break up a family. Though when I say I love him I feel guilty because I am not sure it is the love a wife should have for her husband anymore, but more like the love you have for someone you share history with. It is hard to have love for someone who has lied to you and broken so many promises.

It leaves me trying to recover: I have started seeing a t and started taking anti-depressants that I need. I am also looking into taking classes so I can start working again. I need to fix me before I can big decisions about my marriage.

EsteemSpinner
11-27-2010, 02:28 AM
:gimmehug Axi - I understand and feel for what you are going through - sounds like you have a good plan - it's really sad that your H is not willing to see what's going on or change it - you're really trying to take care of yourself and change yourself and that's all you can do for now - you must be fairly lonely in such a marriage - it's a shame- but your plans are wise :gimmehug

TennisLady
11-27-2010, 02:17 PM
Hi Axi,

I can relate to this as one who went through years of marriage counseling with very few changes, and I also stuck with the ED because it seemed easier to escape and fantasize about someone else than to face the ugliness of divorce, getting a new job, breaking up a child, etc. So I've moved out twice, moved back, without being romantically involved, just co-parenting.

Yet I've gotten involved with those "friendships", and either the guy falls in love and demands a divorce before I'm ready, or he only wants sex. I've come to the conclusion that it's next to impossible to make anything work that way, and creates more drama and depression when the guy walks away from a messy situation.

Yet I understand, you have feelings and needs that need to be met, you feel neglected and someone else can fill you with that, and my T works with me on these. It's just the reality has been much different than the fantasy, and has given me a lot of heartache. Usually the other guy is terribly confused that you're married yet you want this attention from him, even if I explain to him that we were separated yet I moved back home, and am not romantically involved. It still isn't the same as dating someone who is divorced and living on her own. The guys have told me that they are afraid that the husband is going to come after him, or will find another woman who is in less of sticky situation.

I keep hoping that I will fall in love with someone else and he'll make the decision for me, so I won't regret it as much later. That's a Prince Charming fantasy that has yet to come true after four years of this.

It's good that you're working on yourself, I'm doing the same by interviewing now.

axi
01-11-2011, 12:12 AM
I definitely understand the Prince Charming dream. I wish someone could save me, but I am starting to want to save myself.

My friend is avoiding me. :ugh And it sucks. I just hate when people won't be honest and say what's going on. I stopped e-mailing him because he wasn't really responding, then out of the blue, he e-mailed me and said he wanted to talk to me about some things that had happened with his family over the holidays. So, I waited and... nothing. He e-mailed me again a few days later with some light chat and we actually caught each other online today and he said he'd be back on, but then never talked to me again.

I am trying to remind myself that it's not my fault, that I didn't do anything bad, but it is hard. I keep wanting to figure out what I did wrong and blame myself and tell myself that I must be bad because no one who gets to know me ever sticks around. I want to curl up in a ball and cry. I guess it's progress because I am fighting the thinking that it's my fault, but it's so hard and I really do feel like I must be horrible or weak because no one wants me. Not my family, not my husband and now not even my friend.

I am so mad at him, too, for turning out to be a jerk and jerking me around. Even if he didn't want to talk to me, why e-mail me and tell me that he does want to? What is the point in that? I could understand a polite lie if I were e-mailing him and asking him if he wanted to talk to me, but he e-mailed me.

TennisLady
01-12-2011, 11:30 PM
Hi axi,

I'm sorry, it's so very hard when you have your hopes up, although it sounds like there was effort to chat. You never know if the other person is busy with work or what.

Please don't take it personally as rejection or abandonment, even though I know it feels awful :gimmehug

dermaline
01-13-2011, 12:52 AM
Oh, Axi.

There is nothing wrong with you.
You are a valuable person.
Your families problems are CERTAINLY theirs not yours.
Your H seems to love you but you want more than he is presently offering.
And your friend is not being very reliable but all kinds of explanations could be applicable including obliviousness and cowardace!

try to take one step at a time and put the feelings where they belong. They are about the past not the present and that past had nothing to do with your value.

axi
01-14-2011, 05:14 PM
You're right that this is a separate issue, but it is so hard to not feel that I am not a valuable person because no one seems to treat me as if I am. I feel so lonely and it's making the ed thoughts and behaviors creep back. Some days I feel that if just ONE person would love me as I am, I could recover.

TennisLady
01-15-2011, 01:58 AM
What if that one person is you?

axi
01-15-2011, 07:16 PM
Thinking about that makes me feel squirmy. Some days I don't think I am a good or worthwhile person. I have made so many mistakes and I don't know how to fix the mess I'm in. It feels like no one who has known me has found me worthwhile. How can I believe that I am if everyone else says I am not?

dermaline
01-15-2011, 08:09 PM
Axi, I can totally understand what you are saying. It is tough if you have been so undervalued by the people who should have valued you.
It made me terribly sad to hear what you said.

What about your son?
If you popped into your sons body right now and looked at yourself through your sons eyes then would you have value?

I think another things that happens is that we are left with such a sense of worthlessness that we can end up filtering all the good/love/respect out of situations.

If someone compliments you are able to accept it and believe it?
If someone criticises you do you eimmediately believe it?

Even though it may feel really uncomfortable can you list situations where people have valued you?

I know this is a bit of a sore point but does your husband love you?


I think self esteem can be built through a various means.

Being authentic (if we aew not then any time people value us we discount it).
letting others value of us really sink in when it happens.
Doing things in out lives that show we value ourselves.
Treating ourselves as if we value ourselves.
Affirmations may help just a little.
Stopping any talk that is abusive self talk.


One more question about your friend.
Even if he does not want a relay=tionship with you does it mean he does not love you as a friend?
He may be a coward about speaking to you directly about it. That does not excuse it of course but I just mean to point out that he may truly love and value you on many levels.

Dont let him and his actions blend with others who have betrayed you.

You meey situation:
What are your options?
It sometimes helps to put it down in point form so that you can feel a little more on top of it.

axi
01-16-2011, 11:51 PM
I do have trouble accepting compliments. I brush them off and feel like the people complimenting me obviously don't know me because I am not what they say I am (kind, selfless etc). Criticisms devastate me and I accept them pretty readily.

I feel that the people who compliment me are the people I don't let in. Those I let in seem to fall away pretty quickly which reinforces my low self-esteem.

I was valued at my last job. I learned the job quickly and was promoted and given opportunities that others weren't. But I completely folded and ran away at the end because I was so overwhelmed with moving and t and reporting my aunt's husband.

As for my son, I would have value as his mom, but look at how horrible my mom was at times and I still love her and tried so hard to find value in her eyes. I worry that I am not a great mom. I try, but I make so many mistakes.

I don't know if my husband loves me, honestly. I think he feels affection, but he won't communicate with me or work on my marriage. A lot of the time I feel like he just wants someone to be here with him, not necessarily that he wants me.

I just feel so ground down and I don't know how to build myself up again. It feels like every time I try, I get knocked down again and there isn't much left now. I don't have anymore to give and I don't really have anyone to lean on. Maybe that is why this hurts so much: I reached out, I tried even though I feel like I should have known better. I showed him who I was, I let him see the insecurities and bad things in my life.... and then he just left. I don't think I was leaning on him heavily. I wasn't calling obsessively or anything. I kept up with what was going on in his life, it wasn't all about me.

I just don't understand how if he loved or valued me, he would just fade out without saying anything. If he would tell me, I could understand, but the silence is what is so hurtful. Even if I did not like his reasoning or agree with it, I would respect his decision. The timing doesn't help either. I do not need another broken relationship to grieve over right now.

Really my options are one to let it play itself out which will probably mean we will not talk again or if we do, it will be meaningless patter or two force a confrontation by asking him what is going on. I just feel that if he is avoiding talking about it already and lying or misdirecting by saying he wants to talk when he doesn't, then asking directly is pointless. He will simply hold to the pattern and say it is nothing and then it will play itself out anyway. I don't want to let go, but I don't want to end it on a fight and a lie either.

dermaline
01-17-2011, 10:05 AM
Hi Axi,

I went back through the thread and looked to see what he has and has not done.
You will have a better idea but I really think there is a chance that he has not picked up on anything and is ditracted for reasons of his own.
I think that when we have vulnerable places then certain thin gs tap into them and brings up the feelings of abaondonment and self doubt.
He seemed honestly puzzled about it, so I don't think he was.

Do you agree that there is absolutely no way of knowing what is going on with him??
I can so understand why it is painful and how much it hurts. I just think that there may be none of the things you fear in it.

He may also not feel romantically towards you.
If you think about it do you genuinly feel romantically towards him? Sometimes when we are in desperate need of care and are lonely then relationships can seem much more important.

The problem with old hurts is that it leaves us super sensitive to similar experinces and we therefore find these feelings reinforced instead of neing healed.

You are having t and that will help to heal those wounds and you need to be really pateint with yourself and with life. You are taking steps to heal and you will heal with time.

If he is being a flake then it is almost certainly NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR WORTH!!

I do have trouble accepting compliments. I brush them off and feel like the people complimenting me obviously don't know me because I am not what they say I am (kind, selfless etc). Criticisms devastate me and I accept them pretty readily
This is something really important to remember. Can you take a moment when you are complimented or cared for and let yourself absorb it?
I read something recently about how our brains start doing this on an automatic level because of our pasts.

I think a lot of men are complaisant in a marriage. They just dont take it seriously when the women says they are not happy and need a change. They often avoid counselling not because they dont value the women or the marriage but rather because they dont like the idea of it and are not v introspective.
They quite often only take it seriously when the women leaves.

I would challenge you to make sure you seperate the stuff with your frind from the stuff with your marriage. It can be tempting to have a safety blanket but really it is ideal to rather have a space of time before being involved romantically with anyone else.
You want to be ok within yourself before being with someone so that you can have a true partnership.

Can you find ways to interact with others and start making friends with likeminded people? Can you think of any activities that would be comforting and provide you with support?
Can you think of ways that you can strt to chip away at that isolating that you feel?
You are valuable and there will be people who recognise that.
:gimmehug:lubdub:lubdub

axi
01-18-2011, 09:11 PM
It could be his own life. I do know he has a lot going on and his work schedule changed significantly. However, it's been almost **** months since this started. I am now also wondering if maybe I was right when I asked him if he was avoiding me.

I do agree that there is no way to know for certain. I did genuinely feel romantically toward him and we seemed to be very close. Maybe he doesn't want to be, maybe he saw the danger in it and stepped back. But I could sit here and maybe myself to death.

The timing of course stinks because of what I was going through with my mom, so a support I expected to have was yanked out from under me at a time I could have really used it. I also was taking a chance by letting someone in only to have it end this way. I am really really sitting here trying to not self-destruct over this and not close myself off again. I am trying to find ways to make friends, but I have so much trouble getting past just being acquaintances. It is difficult for me to be around other moms because I have a special needs son. I tried joining a group of special needs kids, but my son is several years older than most of them.

dermaline
01-18-2011, 10:28 PM
Hi axi,

I shall come back but I just wanted to send you hugs and :lubdub

I hear you.
Haver you told your t about all this?
x

axi
01-19-2011, 05:05 PM
I have talked about it with my t a little bit, but not in the last few weeks. I will bring it up again when I see her on Friday.

I also wanted to say that I know it's not his responsibility to keep me together. I thought maybe it sounded like I was meaning that he had a responsibility to be there for me. I know that he doesn't, it's my life and my job to keep it together, I just didn't expect him to disappear so suddenly.

Maybe I expect too much closeness from the people I let in?

dermaline
01-19-2011, 07:56 PM
Hi axi. It did not sound like that at all!!!
You just sound terribly sad and lonely and I can understand why.

Your family situation is oparticularly shitty and would make anyone sensitive to feelings of abandonment. :gimmehug

I don't think it is too much to expect someone to respond to your emails or do what they promise.
I also think that it is normal for the feelings that are evoked to magnified because the old stuff starts getting mixed into the present stuff.

It could be his own life. I do know he has a lot going on and his work schedule changed significantly. However, it's been almost **** months since this started. I am now also wondering if maybe I was right when I asked him if he was avoiding me.
What about saying to him directly that you have hardly heard from him and is everything wrong with him or have you offended him? Just so that you are not left wondering?

I did genuinely feel romantically toward him and we seemed to be very close. It could very well be that your instincets are on the button. He may just have become afraid.


The timing of course stinks because of what I was going through with my mom, so a support I expected to have was yanked out from under me at a time I could have really used it. I also was taking a chance by letting someone in only to have it end this way.
I think this is truly the most sad part of this.
His timing could be no worse.
I also think letting people in can be really painful at the start. I have to say it is still painful for me now and I have a v long way to go,
I have taken some steps though and the first ones had me feeling terribly raw and exposed.
Where you able to still protect yourself as you were starting to let him in ? I think I started by just being vulnerable and learned afterwards to do it gradually and with awareness.


I am really really sitting here trying to not self-destruct over this and not close myself off again.
Try very hard not to generalise this. To add all the past stuff to this and make it about all of human kind. If you are patient then you will make friendships that will prove that things can and will be different.

It is difficult for me to be around other moms because I have a special needs son. I tried joining a group of special needs kids, but my son is several years older than most of them.
That sounds tough and very stressful. Is your son with you the whole day? Is there anywhere you can leave him for a few hours?

axi
01-21-2011, 09:36 PM
Well, I don't like confrontation, I am afraid of seeming clingy and most of all, I am afraid of trapping him into lying to be polite. I am afraid he will just tell me that he wants to talk to me when he really doesn't. I think I am also afraid that I will believe him because I want to and then continue to be hurt: that it will just drag the process out. On the flip side, I am afraid that I will not give him the chance because it is easier to close off and not give him the chance to hurt me. I don't want to continue the romantic feelings. I miss him as a friend and a friend only. I wanted to be clear on that. I'm not wanting to be a pseudo-romantic presence in my life: I just miss talking to him and laughing with him.

I think that once I made the decision to let him in, I let him in all the way. I didn't really protect myself and I didn't realize how much this would hurt. I did it in steps, trusting him more and more and I was pretty much open all the way when he backed off or became busy. I didn't think it was one-sided. I thought he had done the same. It just evolved through the conversations we had.

My son isn't with me the whole day: he does go to school. However, we only have one car, so I am limited in where I can go. There isn't much within walking distance.

You are absolutely right that I shouldn't generalize. It is just so hard. I want to close off again. I want to curl up like a turtle and pretend the world doesn't exist again. I do have a potential friend lunch planned with a woman I met briefly. We are trying to get together, but so far our schedules haven't meshed. I am trying to push myself to do it and not back out. It is a little nerve-wracking.

dermaline
01-25-2011, 09:45 PM
Axi, I just wanted to pop on and send you a hug.

Am off to bed but wondered how you were doing and ikf you managed to speak to your t.

:gimmehug

axi
01-25-2011, 11:10 PM
T was cancelled this week because of the snow.

I think... I have been replaced :cry I've noticed some facebook comments between him and another girl. He clearly has time to talk to her, but he's not talking to me. I guess I just need to move on.

TennisLady
01-26-2011, 01:11 AM
Hi axi,

Well it's hard to know exactly what's going on from comments with someone else. Yet I definitely feel your pain and can relate.

axi
01-26-2011, 09:17 AM
Thank you, TennisLady. I'm sorry you know how this feels, too.

dermaline
01-26-2011, 12:45 PM
Axi,
Did you contact him more than once without a resply? Is there any way that wires could be crossed?

I am really sorry :( Not great timing for you at all.
Things will come right so dont give up hope.
You are at the start of a journey to claim healing for yourself and you will make a space for yourself where you have support. Think of it as a journey.

AmyM
01-27-2011, 09:13 PM
Tough circumstances. I feel for you. I wouldn't rush to conclusions as far as how he might feel or that your husband might not feel exactly the same way you do. Try telling him how you feel without going into specific details. You don't deserve to be shunned, no one does.

axi
02-02-2011, 09:21 PM
I wanted to come back to this. I had pretty much given up, but we bumped into each other and wound up chatting while.

I realized that A) I think I tend to give people too much credit (I am not sure that is the right word). I tend to assume that they have their lives way more together than I do and that any action is planned out and has motive behind it when a lot of people are kind of bumbling along, too.

B) I think you were right, Caroline. I think I gave this relationship a lot of importance because I don't venture outside my safe zone. I was also feeling vulnerable with everything else and was leaning on him pretty heavily in my own way. Going through this actually helped distance me a little. Not in a bad way, I guess just a reminder that I can be strong on my own and that I can't rely on someone else so much because they have their own lives as well. I can't get so enmeshed.

All of this I had realized before we bumped into each other and I would have been fine, just a bit sad if we had fallen out of contact. Oh, I also realized I need more contact with people, I just have to put myself out there more.

dermaline
02-06-2011, 05:33 PM
axi, I am glad. That makes perfect sense to me.

Remember that you are in a very vulnerable and emotionally intense place at the moment and that that will change. Be patient with yourself. :lubdub

axi
02-06-2011, 06:31 PM
Patience with myself is very hard. I've accepted that my friendship with him has changed and now we are more "bump into each other occasionally" friends rather than having hours long conversations several times a week friends. I am a little sad at that, but I did learn things from this.

dermaline
02-06-2011, 06:58 PM
That is sad. What do you think you have learned from it?

xx

axi
02-06-2011, 09:23 PM
That friendships can change for many reasons, not just because I did something wrong or they found someone better.

That friendship isn't an all or nothing situation. We don't have to be either thisclose or barely civil.

That someone can still have affection for me even if we are not as close anymore.

That I have an amazing ability to spin myself up about things.

That I expect people to be back-stabby and have plots going. (I know this is from my childhood.)

That I can get through things on my own.

I am more lonely than I thought.

I need to make friends, but have no idea how to go about it.

dermaline
02-08-2011, 08:11 PM
Axi, that is amzing.
The one I would challenge is the spin yourself up one. You certainly wernt spinning yourself up and were rather just reacting out of a place of vulnerability and hurt. That deserves your compassion and I think I detected a bit of judgment there.

I so understand the plot thing and so agree about where it comes from. There are normal trustworthy people out there with no plots or plans.

The good thing about realising how lonely you are is that you must be moving forward. It takes some self care to even realise you are that lonely.
Take your time so that you do things with awareness and you will get what you want in life.

axi
02-08-2011, 10:27 PM
Well, I was sitting here imagining all kinds of plots and reasons that he wasn't talking to me. It's kind of embarrassing. Maybe I need to discuss with my t why I did that? He did tell me that he wouldn't have as much time, but I kind of heard what I wanted to and assumed he would have some time. I still miss our long talks. It's almost like he is a different person and we just have surface conversations now.

I hope I can take my time and be kind of zen about the friend thing. I want friends and sometimes I am not so patient, so of course, I want them now. Not just a "hi, hello" friend. I want a friend that I can talk about deep things with as well as joke with. That doesn't evolve overnight, but it's hard to remember that when you are lonely.

I went to meet another mom with a son that has autism (like mine). Her son is younger than mine, but I think we will meet up again. I am still trying to plan the meeting with the other lady, but I am nervous. She is not overweight and I am very large. :: sigh:: but I can't keep hiding.

Oh, that's another thing I learned: I had really let my life become so small. I didn't take chances or let people near me. I learned that I don't want to be so closed off anymore. I want friendships. I'm not so fond of the bruises that come along with it, but I want to keep moving forward.

Thank you for acknowledging that I've worked to get to this place. Last year, I don't think I would recognize myself. I have made a lot of progress. :gimmehug

dermaline
02-10-2011, 09:18 PM
Axi

I hope I can take my time and be kind of zen about the friend thing. I want friends and sometimes I am not so patient, so of course, I want them now. Not just a "hi, hello" friend. I want a friend that I can talk about deep things with as well as joke with. That doesn't evolve overnight, but it's hard to remember that when you are lonely.
I think you have said something really important here. When you invest yourself so quickly and completely in a frienship then it is not about that person and is rather about your need. That can frighten people away.
Its like a love relationhsip in that one needs to take one step at a time as there are two peiple involved with different thoughts and experiences. I hear you how tough it is to do slowly. Can you try to enjot just the little steps in the meantime? t may also be worhtwhile noting that not all friends will turn out to be the type one can have deep converations with. That you will only find this ou with time and need to use your intuition.

She is not overweight and I am very large. :: sigh:: but I can't keep hiding. Axi! this says so much about how you feel about yourself. You are not your size and you are a whole and worthwhile person! Dont discount yourself just becasue of your size.

Oh, that's another thing I learned: I had really let my life become so small. I didn't take chances or let people near me. I learned that I don't want to be so closed off anymore. I want friendships. I'm not so fond of the bruises that come along with it, but I want to keep moving forward.

Thank you for acknowledging that I've worked to get to this place. Last year, I don't think I would recognize myself. I have made a lot of progress.
I can honestly see you literally zooming ahead!! It is impressive to see.
It is like you are waking up and starting to live and demand and want things for yourself.

That you want friends, a happy home life, freedom from the pain of family stuff and healing for all of your past. It is what you deserve and you are claiming it and that is very powerful. :yay

axi
02-14-2011, 05:01 PM
I never thought about maybe making it more about my needs rather than the person. I suppose I am just not used to clicking with people, so when I do, I get impatient and over-excited if that makes sense.

I just feel that people are less accepting of the morbidly obese. I do feel that others judge me for it and it's hard to get over that.

It's just so hard to figure out how to move ahead and let go of the past. I am very thankful to all the fishies that have helped me talk all these things out or even just read my posts. You are all lovely and wonderful people.