PDA

View Full Version : porn hurts...


*star
12-02-2001, 01:28 AM
:hugon:bowl:hugoff

my dear fishys, i dont know if im overreacting, overemotional, or just plain stupid :ohboy. i never really had a problem with it before but recently, i find myself really depressed when my boyfriend looks at porn. i was ok with it at first like "oh no big deal" but now i dont know why it affects me so much. why am i so bothered by it? i get upset, start crying :cry and have anxiety attacks. i even got upset when he was looking at swimsuit calendars and that shouldnt even be a big deal. makes me feel kinda worthless or like i mean nothing. even now im crying and having one of my emotional sessions because he told me he was looking at porn on the internet. oh what the hell is going on?! i dont want to tell him it bothers me because he says every guy looks at it and blah blah blah. when i told him i wanted to be a stripper, i think it was because i wanted to be that naked girl he wants to look at. (he doesnt want me to do it btw...) so what to do what to do.. oh goodness im confused and conflicted :ummm if all guys do this, how can i ever feel secure in a relationship? is it just me or do other women feel like this too? good thing mad tv and snl are on soon otherwise i'd be in a huge funk :grin

luckynerd
12-02-2001, 02:19 AM
:hugon *star :hugoff

It can be weird and :ugh and :ummm at first, knowing that your man is looking at pictures of other women. But I wouldn't worry about it unless it becomes an obsession. I think starting to figure out *why* you get upset when your boyfriend looks at porn would be a very good start. Do you feel insecure? Threatened? Not good enough? Confused? Ashamed? Embarrassed? None of the above? :winky

Talk to him about it. Maybe if he explains why he does it, it can help you feel better about it. Chances are it has nothing to do with you, and it doesn't change how he feels about you.

Take care,
-Luckynerd

kers
12-02-2001, 08:30 PM
hey,
I'm so sorry you;re so upset and hurt.
I can understand it--I feel the same way.
Luckynerd has a point--what do you feel about this? I know it makes me feel like I'm somehow not good enough for my bf, not providing him with everything he needs. It also makes me feel like he's "settling" for me since he can't have one of those model-magazine girls who are the "ideal". It makes me compare myself to them, which is really unproductive.
My bf and I have struggled with this. I did talk with him and explain, as lucnynerd suggested, how it made me feel. I tried to rationalize--just about all men do this--but it didn't make me feel better. He told me, as luckynerd said, that this has nothing to do with me. I understand that. Still, it upsets me a lot. My boyfriend knows this.

I don't have a solution; I wish I did. Mine is--I use my computer only, and not his, so I'm not compelled to snoop and so I don't accidentally find out what he's looking at. And I don't ask about it. When I found out before, it was completely by accident. So mostly it's a don't-as-don't-tell situation for us. I guess it's the best I can do right now.

I'd love to hear from other fishies on this subject, though--better solutions?

kers

*star
12-02-2001, 11:09 PM
:hugonluckynerd:hugoff
:hugonkers:hugoff

thanks for the understanding :happy i agree with both of you-- talking would be the best thing to do. but im kinda :scared to tell him cuz he already thinks that he's a bad boyfriend, but thats not really the case. it's just this porn issue that kinda irks me. and kers, i think how you explained how you felt is the same way i feel... like im not good enough but he's willing to "settle" for me. oh and btw, he always looks at skinny girls with big tits. whats up with that?! he knows about the self image probs and ED so what gives? he says he looks at girls that are "look like me" which makes me sooo afraid to gain weight. (why would he look at that if im right next to him? ok..:ugh) and no matter how many times he tells me im beautiful, i feel sick and think "well not beautiful enough." ahh i dunno what to do :ohboy maybe i should just look at male porn (too bad those guys are usually butt ugly :sarcasm)

freddi
12-03-2001, 01:21 PM
:hugon trish :hugoff

i used to have a big prob with that as well but after thinking about it a lot i kind of am ok with it now...

everyone has got their own sexual phantasies etc (even though we might suppress them) a lot of these are unattainable...for example i might dream bout someone else ( who i have or have never met) though in actual fact i would never be unfaithful to my fiance or even compare him to that dream....

its kind of the same thing with porn cause it allows you to look at things you would otherwise not see /do...some guys/girls like that, some dont...that does in no way mean that your bfriend has settled for second best....lets face it, its hardly like you forced him to go out w u so he chose you and he chose you because u are u...

i dont know how intimate you are w ur bfriend...or how much u talk bout such things...but maybe you could talk to him bout what he sees in porn (dont be accusing) as this should explain to you taht it has got nothing to do with you and it might also get you talking about things you like/ he likes


this is just how i solved the issue for me....hope this helps a bit

:love

freddi

PoetBallerina
12-03-2001, 03:28 PM
Have you told him about how you feel? Have you told him what it does to you when he does that?

And no. Not all guys do that. I am sure that my boyfriend has looked at porn WHEN HE WAS SINGLE but does not anymore because he has a girlfriend.

And think about it. I totally understand your rationality behind how you feel. Your boyfriend is looking at photos of other women and getting off on it. That makes you insecure. Yeah, I can see why you are upset. I would definately be upset too. That is why you need to talk to him.

And if he gets mad at you for how you feel when you talk to him or if he continues to do it, I would suggest considering dumping him and finding a guy who does give a damn about your feelings. I am sure as hell glad my guy does. :winky

UMBetsy
12-03-2001, 03:41 PM
:hugon:stars:hugoff

my boyfriend, too, looks at porn on the internet. he doesn't know i know, but i've noticed it in his history folder on more than one occasion (and, no - i wasn't snooping!).

it honestly doesn't bother me that much. now, if he was spending money on it, if it was taking up his time....that would be different. but it's not causing any problems, so i'm not concerned with it.

i think what it boils down to is your own insecurity. while i can understand being a little peeved by it, having panic attacks over this situation is a little out of control.

so ask yourself...why do you feel threatened by it? i have a good feeling that even if he never looked at porn again, your low self-image would find something else to focus on....

the problem, it seems, lies within YOU. while i'm not saying his looking at porn is a great thing - or even an OK thing - i just don't see you feeling any better about yourself were he to stop.

anyway...just my two cents.

:love,
:flowerbetsy:flower

freddi
12-03-2001, 03:42 PM
what i was trying to say in my post....

no, not every guy looks at porn...but:

sex is an integral part of a relationship....both need to be comfortable with this....so if ur boyfriend has certain desires it is important that you acknowledge them....i find that too often we just say 'if i tell my bfriend i dont like it and he still does it he is not worth it' whereas infact we dont even bother to ask why he likes it....also, as far as i read your post, he doesnt actually go and look at porn on the internet while you are there....so he is being very considerate to you not liking it....

these things need to be talked about and a solution needs to be found whihc is acceptable for BOTH parties because otherwise one of you will always be resentful of the other....adn that includes his needs!!!!!!!!


i am sorry if i offend anyone with this....but i am not going to pretend that i agree with everyone if i dont

*star
12-04-2001, 02:32 AM
:hugon:fishys:hugoff

i really appreciate your responses on this. it's interesting to see how other :fishys feel. and in ways, i agree with all of you. its just so hard to keep all that in mind when i have to deal with it in real life and feel this real pain.

i talked to my boyfriend about it, and he said he'll change. of course it doesnt really "undo" the feelings i have because its been going on too long to just stop now, but at least it gives me faith that he's willing to change for me. but the incredible amount of pain i feel and have felt in the past was just SO MUCH. i hate feeling insecure. when he tells me im beautiful but i see what hes really looking at, it made me feel like everything he tells me is a lie. i almost broke up with him. an hour of :cry on the phone. i told him i wanted to start all over with someone new-- someone that would NEVER make me feel like that. but i :love him... and he said he only did it to make me jealous because he didnt think i was showing that i care. i just couldnt show it cuz it hurt so bad to see what i was seeing.

so i dunno where we go from here. guess ill find out as time goes on... but i :love all you :fishys very berry much :supergrin

Brenda
12-04-2001, 06:45 PM
:ugh porn and guys :ugh

what a topic

Since I frist met him (and his roomies) I knew they were all into that. They dubbed monday night "porn night" and ALL the guys on the floor would go to their dorm adn watch the must f-ed up porns I ever saw! I mean really crazy nasty stuff (this was probably since this was all of their first times out of the house adn they had to prove machoness or something)

Him watching it bothered me for a long time. I felt like i wans't pretty enough, or kinky enough!

But I have come to the conclusion that it's not all bad. He can see it there adn then NOT expect me to do that stuff. Shure he may want it kinda, but he knows I won't and is ok with it. Those girls/guys do some really odd stuff adn I figure it's best for him to have these fantisies threw pron then beggin me to do that (or finding someone kinkier/dirtier then I! not that I think he would or anything)

But talking to him about this is really important!!!

Good luck

pleasure victim
12-04-2001, 07:19 PM
My boyfriend stopped looking at porn after we became serious. Not all guys do that.

I think, perhaps maybe it's more sensitive of an issue when you have had an eating disorder. That changes everything. You don't need to be bombarded with images of glamourous women, and for the one you love to look at that makes you feel ugly. Maybe worse if you have been anorexic/bulimic/overeatting.

PoetBallerina
12-05-2001, 03:36 PM
I have one last thing to say.


Ask him if it would bother him if you got off looking at naked pictures of other guys and ask him how he would feel about that.

Frankie
12-05-2001, 05:20 PM
This is a greatly disturbing topic for me. I think women get a lot of pressure to be "ok" with it, and I say bulls**t. Why do we need to be "ok" with men lusting and masturbating over other women? I say don't put up with it.

Some say it's not a big deal as long as no money is spent on it. I say any interaction at all is playing with fire. What does Jeffrey Dahmer blame for his actions? Porn. His kidnapping of young boys, abusing them and then brutally murdering them stemmed with "innocent" glimpsings of soft porn.

It wrecks marriages. The husband of a close friend of mine admitted to hiring a prostitute while my friend was out of town at a wedding. On the husband's behalf I will say that the action was MOST out-of-character. What would make him do such a thing? He's always had a problem with pornography.

Another friend called me in tears a few months ago because she had discovered two credit cards that her husband had obtained without her knowledge. Both were maxed and she found out when the companies kept calling the house. Why were they maxed? Her husband was addicted to making calls to sex lines.

Did I advise my friends to get "ok" with it?

The reason is makes us feel lousy and terrible is because it IS lousy and terrible. It's a terrible thing that you do not have to be "ok" with! The husbands I referred to above have both come clean with their problems and reconciled with their wived. What they both have said is that it was something that controlled them, it was something they were ashamed of, and something that started when they were very young and were introduced to a magazine like "Playboy".

So that's my two cents...

:cute

UMBetsy
12-05-2001, 05:37 PM
while i respect every fish's opinion on this subject, i would like to point out that there is a VAST difference between looking at porn on the internet (or even watching a porn movie) and maxing out credit cards on porn, hiring prostitutes and murdering innocent people.

i'm certainly not CONDONING pornography. i, myself, choose not to look at it. but my knowledge of my boyfriend's occasional glimpse of it (of which he is unaware) does not really upset me.

if it became out of control, that would be different. but as far as i can see - it's not even an issue.

i'm secure enough in myself to not feel threatened by the non-realistic portrayal of women displayed in pornography.

i suppose one could compare it to drinking. my boyfriend occasionally drinks...when he's watching a football game, when we go out to the bar, sometimes (although rarely) with dinner. it's not a problem. however, if he began drinking ALL THE TIME, if his drinking was interfering with his responsibilities and our relationship, that would be different. it would be a serious problem. i would insist that he get help and stop.

some people can look at porn and not have it be any big deal. just like some people can have a beer and think nothing of it. others can't.

that being said, i do still believe it is quite obvious that you have some self esteem issues, star. while it is obvious from this very post that many women have negative feelings about porn, having panic attacks and obsessing over it is not normal. whether or not you allow yourself to feel threatened by pornography is, in my opinion, your choice.

:love,
:flowerbetsy:flower

Lucidity
12-05-2001, 05:39 PM
Frankie, I couldn't agree with you more.
I'm so sick and tired of these images being shoved down our throats and them being told to be ok with it. I get so angry when I hear society say that it's something all men do. It's not. I think a lot of it has to do with respect. And to me, porn shows no respect for women, nor do the men who watch it when they are in a relationship. For me, If my boyfriend watched or looked at porn/or a stripper, I would consider that cheating. There is no reason for him to be looking at that. If he wants to see a naked women, I'm right here. :cheesy
Everyone is allowed their own opinion. I just thought I"d share mine.
Love you all,
Liz

luckynerd
12-06-2001, 12:39 AM
I agree with Betsy, who said:

i'm secure enough in myself to not feel threatened by the non-realistic portrayal of women displayed in pornography.


My husband and I have been together for five years, and we've been living together most of that time. We've been married about twenty months. We both look at porn, though he does it more often than I do. (I'm bi, so I can empathize with his desire to look at naked women other than me. :sly) We both know that pornography is fantasy material that doesn't display women in a normal light whatsoever.

We're confident in our marriage, and we both know that things like pornography and (ahem) self-love cannot replace the bond that we share. He gave me this analogy once: Just because you take the bus to work doesn't mean you want to get rid of your car. :winky We also know from experience that the better you know yourself and the more self-confident you are, the more you can contribute to a relationship on many different levels.

Also, as Besty pointed out, here is a HUGE difference between looking at porn and being a sex addict. Just as ED's are not about food, sexual addictions are not necessarily about sex. Addictions and self-destructive behaviors are many and varied, and different people turn to different behaviors when faced with the same set of circumstances.

-Luckynerd

Frankie
12-06-2001, 12:11 PM
I don't feel that porn is something to feel threatened by as far as my personal self-esteem or body image. I think the way most women initially react to this issue is natural and universal and is not something that we should ignore or try to dissipate. I don't think it stems from low self-esteem. I think the bad feelings associated with it are because porn causes men to do things and have feelings that are suited exclusively for relationships.

Men are rigged to be visually stimulated in a way that we women probably don't understand. Although I understand the previous comparison of sexual addiction to alcoholism, I really believe it's a different ball game. In my last post I gave three very strong examples of experiences in my life, and of course not every man will be driven that far. All I'm saying is that the potential for danger is there and it's very real, and it can start with casual, occasional glimpses of a dirty magazine. And it's a lot harder to get help or to ask for help with sexual addictions, since the problem is embarrassing, especially for someone who's married or prominent in the community, etc. Everyone supports recovering alcoholic with gusto, but a recovering sex addict is just a perv.

I feel that the only place for sexual expression is with a monogamous partner. Any sort of lust, masterbation or whatever else that happens OUTSIDE of that is unhealthy, and leads to isolation and discontentment on both sides. Using porn with a partner is an entirely different situation.

Hopefully this helps clarify...

:smokin~frankie

miss_scarlet
12-06-2001, 12:25 PM
Porn is a problem in a relationship if one partner is indulging in it, and either a) their partner doesn't like it; or b) they feel the need to hide it.

I am not okay with porn. I'm not okay with it because it objectifies women and portrays them only as sexual playthings. I am not okay with it because the pornography industry preys on men with addictions. I am not okay with it because porn NEVER portrays loving, healthy, sexual relationships.

That being said, Frankie, you said something that I must respectfully disagree with. You said:

I feel that the only place for sexual expression is with a monogamous partner. Any sort of lust, masterbation or whatever else that happens OUTSIDE of that is unhealthy, and leads to isolation and discontentment on both sides.

Personally, I see NOTHING wrong with masturbation while in a healthy, loving relationship. As long as masturbation isn't used to replace sex, and isn't done using pornography as an aid, what's wrong with it? It is a perfectly healthy, normal behaviour, in my opinion.

UMBetsy
12-06-2001, 12:54 PM
just wanted to say that this has become a very interesting debate. i may be back to reply more, but in the mean time i am anxious to hear more opinions!

:love,
:flowerbetsy:flower

luckynerd
12-06-2001, 05:56 PM
miss_scarlet wrote:
Personally, I see NOTHING wrong with masturbation while in a healthy, loving relationship. As long as masturbation isn't used to replace sex, and isn't done using pornography as an aid, what's wrong with it? It is a perfectly healthy, normal behaviour, in my opinion.

I agree with you up to the point of not using pornography if you masturbate. There *is* porn out there that is made by and for women, that shows sex in a positive light. And, some people need visual stimulation if they're going to take matters into their own hands, if ya know what I mean. :sly

Frankie wrote:

I feel that the only place for sexual expression is with a monogamous partner. Any sort of lust, masterbation or whatever else that happens OUTSIDE of that is unhealthy, and leads to isolation and discontentment on both sides.


I gotta respectfully disagree here, but I'm having a hard time expressing why.

It just seems wrong to me to "put all your eggs in one basket," sexually speaking. Sexual expression is supposed to be about love first and lust second. If you only rely on your partner for sexual release, it becomes about lust first and love second.

I can't speak for any other :world , but I'd hate myself if my husband had sex with me when his heart wasn't in it. I want him to have sex with me because we BOTH want to express our love for each other sexually, and I know he feels the same way.

-Luckynerd

kers
12-06-2001, 06:51 PM
i agree, good discussion about something we never get to discuss enough.

UMBetsy, i agree with you that if somebody's (because this has gone beyond just the one fishy's experience) bf is looking at porn and she feels bad about herself as a result, having her bf stop won't increase her self-esteem. but i also know that when i found my bf looking at it, i felt like shit. i feel like crap about myself other times for other reasons, but at that particular time it was directly tied to his looking at porn. i think this kind of tie-in between sex and self-worth is strong in many women, esp. those with eds. i know that isn't a good thing, but there it is.
you said a strong thing, UMBetsy: "i'm secure enough in myself to not feel threatened by the non-realistic portrayal of women displayed in pornography"

that's awesome. i don't. so i'm still trying to figure out how to get through my life knowing how many men look at porn, even my bf, and knowing that it decimates me inside because it makes me feel so worthless, like such a *body*, like such a *thing*. porn upsets me because it seems to say, "see? this is what men want. silent, thin, big eyed girls who don't have real life problems, who don't talk too much or say stupid things or yell at you or cry or freak out over food." and i KNOW this is the ed talking in me, this is me projecting my own poor self-image. but still.

sigh. sometimes this whole ed thing just hits me and its like, damn. it's ginormous.

kers

miss_scarlet
12-07-2001, 09:27 AM
i'm secure enough in myself to not feel threatened by the non-realistic portrayal of women displayed in pornography.

I agree with kers opinion on this. If you're fine with your husband/boyfriend looking at porn, that's good for you and your partner. However, most women AREN'T, especially women with eating disorders. If your partner knows that you have self esteem and body image issues, then he really shouldn't make the matter worse by indulging in something that is only going to magnify the problem.

Because unless your partner has an addiction to pornography, they should have no problem NOT looking at it in order to strengthen your relationship.

Just my opinion. :happy

Brenda
12-07-2001, 07:09 PM
What an awesome debate!!
:)

There is a huge difference between maxing out cards on sex lines and murdering people (which I do NOT belive is the only cause, I belived he pawned it on that people people would accept it adn try to stop it because of that. There's much more behind killing/abusing then porn!) and just watching some porn.

It can be used in not so harmful ways. Some couple are into that. They use it as a foreplay of types. Hey as long as they BOTH like it why not? It's not like anyone forced those guys/girls to be in the porn and no one forced the couple to get the porn.

I know that porn use to be a huge deal, I often felt VERY upset. BUT I talked to my man about it. We disscussed things his feelings my feelings etc.... and I have become ok with it. I know he has more of a creative mind (and since he's got balls that creative mind wanders to sex) and he also repects the fact that I don't nessaraly WANT to do what he imagines up. Excuse me, I am NOT miss flexable and of course my bones will NOT bend into any position you want! So he watches some of that kinda thing. That's fine. I have seen a few porns in my day (mainly bits and pieces from the college porn night--I sat on his lap because I didn't want to leave him along with a roomful of people watching porn! That was back in the start of our realtionship) Some women on there are totaly fake, others are not. I can honeslty say that almost NONE of the med are good looking (dissapointing) but also most of the girls are not that great either. The fake ones look fake, the real ones are not always anything near pretty. They are just girls who are willing to get paid to screw people. They take who they can get, adn if she ain't that great looking oh well!

I agree that as long as both people are ok, go ahead masterbate! If you want to use a little visual aide, well then if that what it takes! Maybe if you don't like porn get a swimsuit calander or something.

The important thing is both parties must talk and work out a comprimise. Maybe if you don't like porn movies, maybe some mags are ok? If you talk it out you can find a middle ground, but you BOTH must be willing to find the middle

good luck!

E
12-08-2001, 12:36 PM
I am going to chime in late on this debate :winky

I think Betsy put it very well. There is a vast distinction between enjoying porn, and being addicted to porn in a harmful way.

As to porn being exploitive towards women - I think it really depends. There IS porn (or maybe a better term would be erotica) that is not exploitive towards women or is woman-positive. Certainly there's bad stuff out there. But I would view it like any other genre... like some TV shows are sexist, others are not. Maybe that's a bad example, but showing consensual sexual activity is NOT, by definition, exploitive of women.

So I will "come out" here - I like porn. I have looked at porn on the internet once in a while, and I have rented porn with my boyfriend. It really woudln't have occurred to me that someone would be upset by porn viewing until I read this thread, actually, because for me porn and relationship are two totally separate things. Even if you have a boyfriend, I'm sure you still think that "Brad Pitt (or whoever) is hot." It doesn't mean you want to leave your boyfriend for Brad Pitt. Porn is just an extension of that, in a sense.

When I watch porn I am not thinking "gee I wish that person was my boyfriend," or "my boyfriend isn't that cute", or anything. I just find it arousing, and I like to be aroused. I like to masturbate. I don't think that this makes me a pervert or in any way unfaithful to the person that I am with.

:love
e

Brenda
12-09-2001, 04:15 PM
:hugon E :hugoff

glad you chimed in :)

I do have to say that my and my hunny have watched them before.

I DO have to go (preferably at a slow time, I get embarssed adn if their are kinds arend I won't go in "the room". I shouldn't be but I am!) and make sure that it's nothing wacked out.

As long as it's not something really freaky I don't really mind.

The other night my hunny rented one as a suprise (but he knows my rules, so it wasn't anything really out there) because our love lives have been suffering a bit because we are both stressed as all heck.

It was a nice night. We cooked a nice dinner and stuff so it wasn't just that.

But after sevral years in this realtionship I am comfy enough to be ok with it. I know I wasn't at the start.

and I know other couple who are similar to us, and I would have to say in the start the girls wanted nothing to do with porn. I think it's probably got quite a bit to do with how secure you feel in the relationship. If you freak he'll leave you because you don't want to do what they do in porn I doubt you'll like it!
And also you're own self-esteem also plays a big role. And yet again the not in the mood thing is a factor as well!! It's not like everyone wants to watch it all the time!

but this is a very intresting thread! I love hearing everyone's opinions

heavenlee
12-09-2001, 07:11 PM
:gimmehug :stars Star :stars :gimmehug

I have been avoiding this thread. Mostly because a lot of the replies brought up a lot of anger and frustration for me.

Firstly, please know that I am not an insecure person. For someone with an Ed I have a suprising amount of confidence in myself, especially sexually speaking :sly
And in some ways I can even be a little egotistical :sarcasm so please don’t accuse me of being ‘insecure’ after reading my response. Also, you should know, these are not feelings that have come early in a relationship as a kind of ‘early stages insecurity’ I have been in a serious relationship for four years and still feel this way.

Here goes;

I don’t know how or when I became so completely sensitive and aware of myself and of people in general. But I know that I can’t watch something, read something, hear something, taste something, or feel something without feeling it DEEPLY inside. To the point where I often feel my soul will explode. And all I wish for is for someone to be there with me, to feel it with me. To know that I’m not alone
I want to know that I’m not alone in my beliefs and ideals, my loves, my hates, my desires and also my demons, the things that keep me awake at night.I want to know that I’m not the only one who feels the way I do.
:stars Star :stars This is where you come in :happy So much of what you’ve said and what I feel deeply inside after reading your words, so much of what you seem to be feeling…..I feel it too :ugh
And I had to let you know that. So hopefully you can realize, as I am beginning to, that you are not alone & there is no reason you have to change yourself or explain yourself to anyone.
Porn and anything that isn’t direct one on one fun with my partner :sly has been causing me much pain & torment and triggering me for a very long time. You are not alone in this :stars
I have never been able to explain why it affects me. Sometimes I have tried to talk about how it makes me feel & I’ve been told it’s ‘part of life’, other times people have said they understand but theres that look of uncertainty in their eyes that tells me that all they understand is that I am hurting, even though they have NO idea why(these people are still an enormous comfort to me & I love them for TRYING to understand :touched)
But, :stars, it’s not till I read posts like yours that I truly find any relief and comfort :happy Knowing I am not alone.
In my experience, being told you are being ‘silly’, ‘ridiculous’, ‘way too sensitive’ or the worst of all, ‘insecure’ Being told that time after time eventually only increases the feelings of self anger and even can conjure up feelings of inadequacy that, despite what others may believe, were not really there to begin with. ( Just because I find porn offensive it does not make me insecure :reallymad )
It seems some people can assume that because you are the one with the apparent ‘problem’, that it is just that…..YOUR ‘prblem’ & they may not know what to say and may leave you to deal with it in whatever ways you can. Now, while I accept responsibility for myself & my feelings & I know that the need to ‘feel better’ and improve my self esteem or my outlook on life itself falls on me….. I reject the notion that I need to, or even have the ABILITY, to ‘deal with it’ alone. While it is MY feelings, thoughts and sensitivities that are causing me pain, It needs to be recognised that a LACK of sensitivity from others does not help the situation in any way.
Now, I’ve come to the point where I no longer beat myself up for the feelings I have on the topic at hand(at least I’m TRYING not to now)
And I am trying to accept the fact that there are many who don’t/won’t/never will understand where I’m coming from. But, at the same time, I take comfort in the fact that there are some out there(granted, very FEW of us :sarcasm it seems)…there are some who DO get it. People out there who feel the hurt that you do :gimmehug :stars Star :stars :gimmehug and thought I HATE the fact that it does hurt you, I am so thankful to know I’m not the only one…..
On a more personal note;
Though it has been a long time that this whole porn thing has been an issue for me….. it wasn’t till recently that I’ve felt safe and strong enough to open up about it and know that no matter what the response may be, it is OKAY for me to feel what I feel, without having to give an explanation even.
It REALLY IS OKAY to feel what you feel !!
Now….I don’t have to talk about this..because I don’t HAVE to explain myself to anyone …but a point needs to be made here…..
:trigger (talks of sexual abuse)
Last night I had a flashback.
When I was sexually abused by my stepbrother when I was six years old, it was someone I felt I had a very special relationship with (I was a KID :scared so please don’t think I’m gross)
I didn’t realize that what he (&/orWE) were doing was as wrong as I know it now to be.
My mother had moved in with another man(my parents divorced when I was two) My mother was fully into her alcoholism at the time and very much focused on the new ‘love of her life’ My eldest brother Mark, seventeen, had moved out. My other brother Justin, fifteen, was in and out of home & continuously in trouble with the police at the time. He lived in a caravan we had in our backyard.
So, in the new house, it was me, Mum, mum’s new beau and his two sons, my stepbrothers. We’ll call them *Greg, seventeen and ‘B’, fifteen (same ages as my brothers)
To cut a long story very very short, I went unnoticed. Considering my mothers alcohol abuse I was probably lucky to even be clothed and fed at the time.
I felt unloved…..worse than that though…..unseen…..invisible.
‘B’ made me feel special. His brother Greg was occupied with school and his friends, my mum & stepdad had each other…..
I had Him, B. The one who loved me(or so I felt at the time)
He hurt me, I didn’t care.
He loved me. If he Loved me, the tears, the pain, the nightmares…..none of it mattered.
After numerous episodes of abuse in B’s bedroom, some of which His brother was present for, watching…never saying a word. After a few years in this house, we left.
My Mum took me away from there. & Now, I thank God she did.
But, at the time, I could not have felt worse :cry I felt I had done something bad.
On some level, even as a child, I believe I had started to question what went on between us(without really knowing just how WRONG it was)
Here is the thing (:ugh)
- At Fifteen years old, B watched porn movies (is father allowed this)
- At Fifteen years old, he had Porn pictures plastered all over his bedroom wall, right next to his bunk bed.
Right where I was forced to look at when he abused me………

I can’t help thinking this may have something to do with the absolute phobia I have of my boyfriend having ANYTHING to do with those kind of magazines, those movies…?…

What do you think ?

Am I overly sensitive ?

Do I maybe have a reason to be ?

(thanks for listening to this :touched if you have read this far )

This post is not about me wanting sympathy for what happened to me.
I am making the point that no matter where and of our thoughts, beliefs, expectations or feelings come from…..
They should be accepted…..
And respected…..

To those of you that make the assumption that :stars Star :stars or myself or any other people who feel the way we do about porn are just insecure and need to trust our partners more….don’t insult me with assumptions. There is often a lot more to it than what you see and hear. Even if Star herself has NO idea where these feelings come from, at least let her attempt to find out without labelling her ‘insecure’ or judging her.

:gimmehug Star :gimmehug, I know this story is kinda an overwhelming one. I am not assuming that some similar kind of experience is the reasoning behind YOUR feelings. I’m just letting you know that for WHATEVER reasons we have for disliking something…..
it is okay for you to feel that. And more importantly,
it really IS OKAY for you to verbalize it.
Talk it through with your boyfriend. Even if it did come from some kind of uncertainty you have about yourself, your feelings need to be appreciated and heard and respected.
Stay YOU, no matter what.

And know that you are perfect just as you are!
You are the best kind of :stars Star :stars you can be. And all your thoughts and feelings make you who you are. Who you are is beautiful, don’t you forget it.

:yay

heavenlee
12-09-2001, 07:42 PM
p.s after talking to your byf, if you still have a problem with the kind of things you mentioned...it's okay Star. People can be sexually open and adventurous, sexual and sensual without having to sit through those kind of movies. look at me...:sly I love sex, but I wouldn't sit with any byf of mine and watch a porn movie. I can't think of anyhing more disgusting or disrespectful to me...but as we know, there is reasons behind that for me.

all i want to get across is that...looking at all the responses here.
it is an individual preference.

stay true to you Star, thats what matters.

:peace

one last thing, frankie..thankyou for your replies. it meant a lot to hear that coming from someone else. i thought i was the only one who wouldn't accept it and found it disrespectful. i'm glad to hear theres some other very strong minded women out there :yay stay you !!

*star
12-11-2001, 09:11 PM
:hugonkristy:hugoff
WOW. im not sure how to reply to your post because your words mean more to me than anything right now! what you said was so powerful, and right; we don't have to explain our feelings and we have to understand thats it's OKAY to feel that way. just knowing im not swimming :swimming alone in these dark waters and i have these wonderful :fishys like yourself makes me feel so much better. and no matter how many times this is debated, our feelings can never be wrong. we'll get through this! :gimmehug lotsa :love to you kristy!

UMBetsy
12-12-2001, 12:00 AM
kristy...

i really appreciated what you had to say about this. i can also completely appreciate your objections/disdain for pornography. i share many of those objections, although i have never been subjected to any particularly negative situations/abuse involving porn.

i do, however, find porn distasteful - and when you get right down to it - pretty damned disgusting.

however. i would like to comment on my assessment of what i perceived to be star's "insecurity." it is certainly just my opinion, and i have no idea what personal experiences might be behind her emotions. as i have not been made privy to them, i can only make a judgement on the information i have been given.

once again - in my opinion - eating disorders are, by nature, an indication of wretched self worth in a person. obsessing over the images of other women one's boyfriend might be viewing to the point where it's causing one severe emotional distress is also - in my opinion - indicative of a low self esteem. it sounded to me as if star was worrying she didn't measure up to these porn chicks...that perhaps her boyfriend would begin to develop unrealistic expectations of her, sexually speaking.

these are valid worries/fears. i completely understand them. i would probably feel them, myself, if i thought my boyfriend had a pornography problem.

but those worries/fears can be escalated to an extreme....and, at that point, i believe it is no longer about the porn. while most women feel discomfort with pornography (or at least a large number of women), and many would prefer (and even request) their partners not look at it, when it gets to the point that it is causing anxiety attacks it takes on a whole new meaning. and perhaps - perhaps - points to insecurities about the relationship and within oneself.

again - just my opinion - and of course, i cannot speak for star.

just wanted to jump back in on this thread...

:love,
:flowerbetsy:flower

Starfaery
12-12-2001, 12:28 AM
I just want to say that I have to agree with Kers, that she said exactly what I feel on the subject... that although I respect the other opinions on porn, for example, for some couples, it may be just fine. My best friend and her boyfriend watch it together and enjoy it. Me, however, I find it depressing and sexist, and disgusting to imagine my boyfriend getting off to it when I am right there. I know that in his past he watched them and read "Penthouse" and all kinds of crap like that, and we openly discuss how it makes me feel. My boyfriend has had weird experiences sexually as it is, fetishes i wont even mention, because im sure he would get quite embarrassed and angry at me ;) but since he is trying to get past them as part of his past, Im trying (although its extremely hard) to KEEP those fetishes and things he has done (and believe me, they are extremely shocking) in his past as well, and look towards our future as a separate thing entirely. So porn will NOT be involved. ;) But I do not condemn those who like it, I just dont like it myself, and I dont necessarily think its ONLY a matter of self-esteem, mine stems from many happenings, I have a sexual paranoia anyhow as a part of my paranoid tendencies, and its not only because of the ED, but because of my borderline personality disorder, anxiety, OCD, and major depression which gives me the insecurity i do have. Sometimes things have an underlying texture. Just some of my thoughts :)
Megan

emma lucy
12-21-2001, 12:06 PM
:hugon :stars :hugoff

We all have deep desires. There are some things we would never tell our partners, no matter how close to them we were. Some things are so deeply private that they cannot be shared. Maybe you were never meant to know. But it doesn't change who he was before you knew him.
I can understand your being hurt and upset. Lines of communication need to be open. Maybe it is something you could share or maybe it's time for you to look at things you desire.
Some porn is vile and disgusting. I hate seeing girls being degraded but remember that porn is the one industry where women have the upper hane - they earn more and have the most control in general. Yes, there are some terrible things on the internet but i'm guessing he wasn't looking at anything beyond legal boundaries.
If you are uncomfortable with it, then speak out. Sometimes sex is the hardest thing to discuss, yet it is the most intimate thing that people can do together.
I wish you :clover

littlegirl
12-21-2001, 04:41 PM
Hey.. im coming in kind of late but I've been reading this topic for some time now and i decided before signing off I'd put my words. porn is disgusting, i hate it and the thought of it. i guess i have my reasons for that though...

*star
12-26-2001, 10:51 AM
:hugonemma lucy:hugoff
thank you! i agree-- some porn really makes women seem like nothing but sex objects. but at the same time, if that's what those women want to do, they should be able to do it. i dont really have a problem with those porn :starss, they are high paid legal (or not?) prostitutes doing their own thing.:ohboy its only a problem when im being compared to them. some of those women are beautiful and idolized by men. i just want to know my boyfriend thinks im beautiful and that he :loves me and only me. since i first posted, the situation has gotten better. ive talked to him and he's really made an effort to stop. communication really is the key in any relationship!!! :supergrin

mat
12-26-2001, 02:32 PM
Oh cool,

im in too late then. I Like poets comment and like Emma Lucys one too.

mat

smiles-a-lot
12-27-2001, 05:19 PM
I don't have time to read this whole post my buddy :fishy but I wanted to respond b/c it hit home. I recently ended a ten year relationship and a primary reason was similar to yours. He would go to strip clubs (not often but still) and it hurt to the core. I tried to explain it made me feel horrible, like I wasn't good enough, pretty enough etc etc... and with my past of childhood abuse it seemed he was objectifying women as I had been objectified as a child. He never got it - now he claims to but sorry too late.

No not all guys do it. My ex fed me that line too... it's there way of getting out of the guilt and pushing the guilt to you... making you feel like you are wrong to be upset and that every guy does it and every girl lives with it. It's not true...ALL my friends say they would feel the same way. No one wants to feel like their man needs to look at others to be aroused. You have every right to feel as you do and NEVER let him tell you otherwise.

I am now with a wonderful guy who has never been to a stripclub, doesn't go out with other women (as the ex did), doesn't look at other women in front of me... so NO all men do NOT do it.

Especially knowing you have/had an ED your bf should be especially considerate as we have low self-esteem and body image issues as is... him looking at these fake perfect women makes you feel more imperfect. I'd have a long talk with him, explain these things and why it hurts and if he's not willing to compromise in someway... I hate to say it but find someone better. It took me many years to learn that... but now I realize I deserve to be treated with respect, love, commitment and honesty... and so do you. :happy

BrotherBear
01-04-2002, 04:28 AM
I need to say some things here. First, most men do not look at porn, that line is as old as the hills. Second, I do not know who said that porn stars were well paid, but that is also a lie. Thirdly, while things like Playboy and Penthouse magazines can possibly be written off as adolescent boy stuff, there comes a point where those do not suffice to arouse any more. At that time more explicit porn is needed to achieve the same goal. This trend continues, causing the "viewer" to require increasing levels of porn.
Also, porn is demeaning, not only to the women involved, but to those who look at it. It continues to perpetuate myths and stereotypes about both men and women. I will admit that I, at one point in my life was one who indulged in that kind of thing, but I out grew it. I am an adult now not an adolescent, porn is not a mature thing, it is for the most part for those who can not maintain a positive healthy adult relationship.
My wife and I have a healthy sex life, and both of us suffer from ED's. Porn is not a part of our lives. Looking back I see how sad most of it is, the people in it are not real in any sense of the word, physically or emotionally.
Some thoughts for those who have their insecurities brought out when their partners look at porn. Some times, men look at porn because of their own insecurity, they feel a lack in themselves.
Just some thoughts from a guy whose both been and done and left that world.

v-ball
01-07-2002, 10:05 AM
It's been a long time since I've talked to you Trish! I've missed you! Anyways, I wanted to share my view with you real quick. I didn't read any of the replies, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating something someone else has said.

First, you have a right to your feelings. That is the most important thing I want to point out. No matter what anyone else says or thinks, if the idea bothers you, TELL HIM. If he can't respect your wishes, then he isn't half the man you deserve.

Second, NOT EVERY MAN looks at porn. I happen to have an absolutely terrific man of my own, & he does NOT look at porn. In fact, he has a problem with girls who wear their shirts too low &/or too tight.

Third, you have a right to use your voice. And you have a right to make requests in your relationship. So use your rights. Tell him you're not comfortable with it. Explain how it makes you feel & why. And tell him, if you can, why you said you wanted to be a stripper. And again: if he can't/won't respect your feelings, then he is not even half the man you deserve.

Fourth, the difference between a guy & a man has nothing to do with age. A guy is imature, disrespectful, has major problems of his own with things like listening when someone expresses an opinion. A guy is NOT what we women deserve. We deserve a MAN. A man is more mature (may have moments of immaturity though), has respect for himself AND for women, and can listen to the opinions & feelings of someone, & have respect for those opinions & feelings.

Take care, stay safe, & keep fighting. Also, let me know how you're doing. Drop me an e-mail or somethin'.

Much :love,
Amanda

Corey-Elizabeth
01-07-2002, 04:50 PM
I don't post or reply over here, but I 'lurk' from time to time. I wanted to add some of my own thoughts anyway:

I first want to commend you all on creating such a respectful, sensitive, and insightful discussion. It's not always easy to voice your own opinion, and it's not always easy to disagree RESPECTFULLY.

After reading all of the replies, I have found a few things as yet unsaid:
No matter WHAT it is in a relatonship that may be bothering one or both people, it is important that a person be heard and their opinions respected. I don't think that it makes a difference whether it is drinking, lying, parenting choices, having an affair, picking on someone, or looking at porn; if one partner is uncomfortable than it warrants serious discussion. Asking another to change their habits for you and the good of the relationship is a real test of the strength and honesty of that relationship.
Nothing can happen, though, without open communticaiton. A person cannot validate your feelings or change their habits without first knowing - and understanding the reasons behind - your opinion. I agree with a lot of you who have said that it is very important for Star should talk with her boyfriend about this.

The title of this post is 'porn hurts', and I wanted to add something to the already discussed list of people it hurts: The people in the videos. In a lot of cases, the people who are acting in these vidoes are not doing it because they really like being sexual in front of a camera. Some people feel that their sexuality is all they have, they may not feel like a whole person, and therefore use their sexuality in a way that perpetuatates their poor self-image.
Poeple may be being forced to act in these videos in many ways; through abusive relationships of all kinds, they may be being exploited, and they may be children or teenagers who are being sexually abused.

I'm sure that these cases are only a percentage of the videos, but you can never be quite sure that the video you are watching was shot with consenting actors.

Corey

emma lucy
01-08-2002, 11:37 AM
There are some really interesting viewpoints here and I'd like to echo the fact that not all men look at porn. But there are very few who haven't had a sneaky peak, whether it be magazines videos or any other such variant.
There are a lot of men who do not get any kick out of it so they no longer dabble.
:starsCorey-Elizabeth:starsis right when she says that not all videos contain consenting actors. This is abhorrent and something I could never condone.
Always make your voice heard.
Stay safe.

A.S.W.
01-11-2002, 04:05 AM
*sigh*

Hopefully our self-esteem will build as we recover.

Until then, I'm in the same boat with you. I'm hesitant to even watch movies with my boyfriend, because I'm afraid he'll compare me to the star of the movie and think, "I wish she looked more like that."

Speaking of calenders, we were at a calender store just the other day. He picked up a calender called "Jade" (yes, I remember the name) and it was a composite of pictures of, well, Jade, who evidently is some kind of porn star. The pictures were not vulgar, just rather revealing. I freaked.

I'm not sure what to do about these kind of situations so I really don't have any words of advice. I have hugs to offer, though. :) I just keep telling myself that I really am beautiful, inside and out, and that my boyfriend knows, also. Perhaps you can tell yourself that, too.

samm
01-14-2002, 04:13 PM
Porn ~ what a topic. I've read thru all the replies. Very interesting bunch we are :winky.

Anyhoo, here are my opinions. :supergrin

Porn is ok if BOTH people are ok with it. If both adults are consenting, there really shouldn't be a problem, unless it is something way off the wall such as beating the shit out of someone or anything to do with children.

Porn is NOT ok, if it is being hidden or kept secretive. I feel the perp. has issues beyond masturbation. Everyone masturbates, why be emabarassed? Hence, there is a deeper problem.

Like others have stated, everyone is different, if it is something you do not feel comfortable with, then talk to your partner. If he refuses to "give it up", well then you have a decision to make. Personally, if he's hiding it, lieing about it, or it makes you feel bad about yourself (which only you can make you feel bad about yourself), but you get the jist, then run for the hills. Don't put yourself thru any more of this.

Star*, you do have a right to feel what you feel. For some its a religious thing. For some its just simple embarassing, there is nothing wrong with that, we are all individuals.

Personally, I don't have a problem with it. I don't run around seedy XXX Video stores, but my husband and i do take a "sneaky peek" every now and then. We used to have "problems" with it as he was hiding it b/c he was ashamed. It almost ended our marriage. I don't feel your situation is at this level, so now i shut up and end my reply.

I totally agree with emma lucy (i think it was her) that stated...



We all have deep desires. There are some things we would never tell our partners, no matter how close to them we were. Some things are so deeply private that they cannot be shared.


Too true.

:sun

zampaz
01-14-2002, 05:48 PM
There is a lot in this topic...sorry fisheys but I haven't read all of it yet, but I was quite taken with smiles-a-lot post.
I was involved in a relationship with a woman who had a fantasy about being a dancer. At first I said "If it's your dream then you should try it." not understanding about how I would feel about it. She tried nude dancing and got hooked on the money ($************/night)> I pleaded with her to stop...it hurt me...I had never been to a dance club except a couple of times with friends when i was a teenager lo these many years ago...anyway i thought the whole dancing thing very seedy and low class...the point is that we had different core moral values.
Her value system allowed her to do that and she felt like she was exploiting her customers, not like she was bing exploited. We got married but she didn't change (har, har, har, imagine that). I admit I liked the money too, times were very hard. But I hated the way she was getting that money.
Of course things didn't work out because she thought that it was ok for her to do that and I felt that is was wrong for her to do that. This was a difference of opinion based on different core moral values...there is no RIGHT and WRONG here, only different value systems. So if porn bothers you the question is what is it about it that bothers you? Is it because you are insecure? Because it detracts from your relationship? Because it conflicts with your core moral values? Because it is an obsession for your significant other?
I don't feel that photos of naked people are any more or less evil than naked ladies dancing, gambling , alcohol, drugs or food. Any of these things can become obsessions that detract from a primary relationship and destroy it. Eventually any obsession consumes the person obsessed.
Here is the point that I am trying to make. IF you and your significant other have different core moral values then things won't work because the differences are fundamental. If you don't think that porn is particularly wrong, and you are just insecure about yourself then hopefully you can express that fear to your significant other and he will abide by your feelings. Men are wired differently than woman and are much more stimulated visually. That doesn't mean that we don't like looking at just you our girlfriend or wife, just that we like visual stimulus. Not all of us look at porn. Not all of us eat chocolate. Find out where the difference lies, is it core moral values, personal insecurity, a combination...If porn (or dancing)
is more important to your significant other than your feelings are then you should reevaluate whether you want to stay with that person. But if you are demanding that someone else change their behavior based upon your personal insecurity then it doesn't matter what you ask for and whether or not that person complies with your request. No matter what that other person does or does not do only YOU can make yourself feel secure. Insecure people tend to be needy, whiney, grasping, smothering and in need of constant attention, and they are unattrative. I know, I am insecure myself.

Tate
01-30-2002, 08:00 PM
a I agree with E
In my opinion, if your boyfriend looks at porn it is just for visual arrousal. It could also be for anticipation. Or maybe he was just horny and wanted to masturbate alone. That is very normal behavior. People masturbate.It is not a bad thing.I have and I don't feel like I am abnormal or bad or have some weird preoccupation with porn.Porn is sexually exciting for some people.Maybe you could ask your boyfriend if he would like to try something new and exciting. Stimulate him visually so he knows your open to trying new things. I think porn fulfills that desire people have to sexual fantasies.I don't think he is trying to hurt you by it. He is just human.
Love Tate