BOOK TWO: When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies

[Kensington]

The second book club selection is "When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies: Freeing Yourself from Food & Weight Obsession" by Jane R. Hirschmann & Carol H. Munter.


This book is by the same authors who wrote "Overcoming Overeating". The book does approach a lot of its methods from the idea of someone who has problems with binge eating or compulsive overeating, but I hope this won't keep someone who has other ed related problems from reading it.

The ability to stop hating your body is something everyone with an ed should learn.

The book is divided into three sections:

:bullet Reclaiming Your Body

:bullet Reclaiming Your Appetite

:bullet Reclaiming Yourself

Chapter titles include: Bad Body Thoughts; Befriending Your Body; Legalizing Food; Knowing How Much is Enough; Mouth Hunger; Strong Feelings/Forbidden Wishes; & If I Were Thin.

There are a few numbers in the book but only a very few & nothing that should preclude a person from getting something out of the book. I highly recommend this book to anyone, regardless of their gender or ed.

Some quotes from the book that may ring true for a lot of you:

"Unfortunately, we live in a culture that accepts body hatred & dieting as normal components of femininity".

"Despite the fact that dieting is thought of as a sign of accepting self-responsibility, it is really a way of placing responsibility for yourself in someone else's hands, however invisible the owner of those hands may be. Diets are addictive because they create the illusion of a safe structure that can contain eating impulse".

"If you are coping with a difficult feeling, you have two opportunities to be a good caretaker to yourself. The first opportunity comes the moment the feeling strikes. But, if you can't deal with what you're feeling & need to eat something, you can take care of yourself later by being sympathetic rather than reproachful".

"In the course of our work, we have found that mouth hunger [as opposed to true stomach hunger] is generally triggered by one of three situations:

One: When we feel in danger of being overwhelmed by our feelings
Two: When we feel the guilt that follows "forbidden" feelings or thoughts (the sense that we have broken a taboo)
Three: When we feel like a failure in any context"


Let the reading begin! :happy

[AmyG]

Kensington,

I'm off to Barnes & Noble tomorrow to purchase it. I have a plane trip on Friday so now i will have some new reading material. A trip to spend ***** days with my parents - I must be crazy!

:sun:stars:sun

[FoxInSox]

OOH! I'm the first to respond! That's fun :bounce

I read this several years ago when I was a member of the :bowl as "infinitepiphany." I really enjoyed it. The book has a mildly feminist twist that was very different from the culture of Deep East Texas where I was living and it helped me reframe alot of my thinking.

One of the things I distinctly remember from that book was the mental challenge: "Says who?!?"

For example, pretty woman are thin. "Says who?!?" I should be smaller. "Says who?!?"

It was a great way for me to rebel against the ED voice.

Good selection, Kensington!

Fox

[AmyG]

:supergrin Well, I went out and purchased the book so now I have it in my carry on and all ready to start to read during my flight. if only i was flying somewhere else like on a real vacation.

:spinny I will have the book to keep me grounded when with my family (Not while flying).

It looks like a great choice, Kensington!

:gromit:bunny:gromit

[purplebfly]

Good for you Amy! I am actually still working through the first book and the Don't Diet Live It workbook (arrived yesterday on Amazon) but will watch this thread with interest on what you all think!

[ChrisC]

I just read your first post about book club last night about a half hr before borders closed...so being the impulsive me, i went right up and got teh last copy of it, and bought this one as well! so i am in the middle of book one right now, it has tons of post its in it:-) I will let you know what i think of when women stop hating their bodies later!!! Thanks kensington, this book club is great!!!!!!
Chris

[Kensington]

:funky Anyone had time to finish reading the book?

:bowtie Any thoughts if you are currently reading it? :ear

[Rainbow-unicorn]

i just bought this book off of amazon, i hope it arrives quickly as i cant wait to get stuck into it

[Bobolah]

Sounds like a good read. I have a few weeks left of classes this semester, and then I am off on my first clinical affiliation on May seventh......I will def buy the book and start reading as soon as I am done finals on April twenty third!

[iwashere]

this was one of the first books i bought for my recovery- and i lost it!!! :(. i read most of it, and it is definitely good, but i just wish i could find it now. i've been thinking about where it may be for awhile now actually :\. i'd love to hear what people think.

-Shannon (iwashere :grin).

[summeryet]

I love reading and I think I need to get back to reading some ED books since I am struggling right now. I have read so many, and this one is new to me so I am very excited to order it and get started.

Hope its not too late??

~Michelle

[DeepWaters]

I'm almost done reading this :happy

All in all, it's a fabulous book. The thing I most love about it is that it's so soothing, caring and understanding toward the reader. It almost feels like having a "caretaker" in the form of a book with you.

Just reading a few passages here and there gives me hope and a feeling of, I can do this! :yay And the great thing about this book is that it gives you permission to eat again, to reclaim your appetite. And encourages you to find TRUE freedom in your eating and in your life.

What I liked best was the chapters that talk about reclaiming your life (as opposed to only your eating/appetite/diet). How they teach you to develop an internal caretaker and with the help of her unconditional support, challenge your thoughts, difficult emotions, taboos etc. Very helpful :yay. And I LOVED the Who says? challenge. Very helpful to me....

What I didn't like about this book is the somewhat dated idea about the symbiostic (sp?) relationship with a mother and a baby and how that causes those with EDs to reach toward food for comfort, love and etc. I simply don't think it's that black-and-white. And it's a very "psychoanalytical" idea, and I don't necessarely agree with it. And some of the feminist criticism toward our society I found to be a little dated too...too victimizing, too naive, too black-and-white. But these are all minor things.

I do recommend this book. It's a great read - take the best and leave the rest :winky

[Seabiscuit]

I just got the book from the library today so I will start it soon!!

I'm excited and sorry to be behind all of ya!

Amy

[Seabiscuit]

I just started reading When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies- it is really good.

Amy

[earthspirit]

I'm going to order this book online tomorrow or Tuesday. :)

[Kensington]

bump for FoxInSox

[Kensington]

:sun :sun :sun

[savvyupgirl]

GRRR! I am at only the third chapter so perhaps I will think differently about the book, but I simply want to wing it across the room. I find it very frustrating. First, I am so annoyed by the idea of fat acceptance. Why not "set point" acceptance or "difference" acceptance? Fat acceptance is seeming to me like just eat, whenever and whatever the hell you want. Don't try to be nutritious, just eat whatever. And don't let the doctor tell you fat is not healthy. I am amazingly frustrated. Second, I am so sick of this fat as a symbol of male oppression of women. I see oppression of women in many places, but I don't think ideals of beauty are one of them. Standards of acceptance, maybe, but the simply fact that thin = beauty doesn't seem sexist in and of itself. Third, at this point, the book is cuddly. Maybe it gets challenging, but I find the book to make me a victim and not treat me as someone better than the Ed. I think the authors are portraying those with EDs as victims of the ED, not independent agents that have the choice to recover.

My current two cents anyway.

[fulltimepinklady]

:yay very nice critical analysis. I have read this book, and found it a bit extreme. but I see where the authors are coming from all the same. Dieting should be stopped, fat should not be labeled "good" or "bad" just as skinny should not be labeled "good" or "bad." I think leaving one extreme can put one on the opposite spectrum without realizing there is a happy middle. But sometimes, it's easier to be an extremist about something than it is to find the gray-even when the gray is the only appropriate measure. But yes, just wait til you get to the end, it might get even worse for you.... the book has its flaws I believe, :wacky but overall, there is a good message to it.

[Millificent]

bump for over_it

[over_it]

gracias :lubdub

[Idara]

I enjoyed much about the book, for example the idea that we must stop dieting and love our bodies and praise them for what they have carried us through. Also, I love the idea that we must learn to nurture ourselves and reclaim our eating lives.

But so much of this book is rooted and centered sqarely on an American experience and perspective. Forget about sociology as far as what determines shared experience or what has been found about what environments make people healthy eaters. Forget about psychology and social psychology about what situations and environments make people overeat. The only thing that is emphasied is this uber-Freud food=momma anti-sexist style. Which is ironically contridictory.

While I did get rid of my scale, I would not be adverse to being weighed while pregnant. What the heck. That tells a lot about how your baby is doing. These folks in this book are anti any weighing for any reason. And to sit up and say that your DOCTOR is wrong for mentioning weight loss? I agree that we as a society should look at weight loss as a health issue rather than a body image issue. But it does have to be looked at. We are one of the fattest societies, and most of us are going to outlive our kids because of obesity. Conquering obesity does involve loving our bodies, but to love our bodies we must nourish our bodies!

Then the idea that we should all eat on demand for all meals. Why is it then, that every culture around the world uses meals as a focal point for family interaction? And surprise! they aren't facing the obesity and eating disorder epedimics we are. I think part of the problem is that we don't enjoy the process of eating, we only enjoy the food itself. Even though I don't like diets, I love the philosophy of the book "French Women Don't Get Fat," in saying we should enjoy everything about food: taste, sights, sound, feel/texture, and smell. I know when I stood up for my taste buds and said I would not subject myself to nasty chocolate or cake that I totally quit binging on these foods.

So I recommend this book; but please don't use it as a Bible. I think it is very unbalanced.

[lovingspirit]

I think the bottom line of both of the books by Hirschmann and Munter is that you let your body tell you what it wants. It (your body) is capable of doing that, we just generally don't allow it to.

I don't believe that cake and chocolate are "nasty", "wrong", "bad" or "unhealthy". If I did, then everytime I ate them I would think I was wrong, bad or unhealthy. If my body wants chocolate then I will eat chocolate. I think they're point in both of their books is trust your body and not some outside influence...ie. social gatherings, diet groups, fad books, magazines, etc...

I personally love these authors and I agree with just about everything they wrote. That's just my opinion. :shy

PS...they put me in mind of Geneen Roth and I dearly love her take on EDs.

[Idara]

Not that cake or chocolate are bad!!!! Just - why waste your tastebuds on Hershey's when one really good swiss or belgian would really satisfy you so deeply?

The same thing with cake. When I did cake tasting for my wedding I promised my mouth and stomach never to subject them to entemans, safeway cake, costco cake etc when there are wounderful and delicious gourmet cakes with high quality ingredients. That is what I mean - when we really explore our love for food and respect it in itself that can really help us to make friends with food, not regarding it with suspicion and to truly enjoy it in moderation and yet be satisfied!

Like eating the lobster. If you want a fish sandwich, don't go to friggin Mc'Ds. Go out and get some fresh halibut or maybe even soft shell crab. Make homemade tarter sauce. Go to a bakery and get some gooooood bread. Spread out the table cloth and have your kids and husband, or call some friends. Enjoy your fish sandwich, don't get some garbage sanddwich and stuff it like your punishing your body because in that case (I believe) you are.

[Millificent]

Not everyone has the time, money, or cooking skills to make a fresh fish sandwhich. Likewise, many of us do find store bakery cakes to be quite delicious (and I sure can't afford to go to an artisan bakery every time I want a slice of cake).

Moderation includes eating fast food now and then, without berating yourself for choosing to do so. I think part of recovery is also learning not to be judgement of others for their choices.

:dragon Millie

[Idara]

I agree that moderation is eating what you want without feeling guilty.

I just know that for myself, if I eat good quality things I really love I don't binge (usually). Maybe it IS because the cost is prohibitive; I don't know. But getting a five dollar slice of cake I will be satisfied, whereas I would need a box of cheap donut holes or a whole cake to have that same feeling.

I just think that really loving food and treating yourself to good food is important in recovery. For me, its about respecting your body in this manner.

[namaste]

This was the book I used to go from needing a food plan to being able to trust myself. And probably my favorite book about women and their bodies.

But I agree, at first it does seem very unbalanced. I have read it many times and each time understand or am able to do more and more. Personally, I'm sure I initially ate enough chocolate to personally contribute to the economy of some small, cocoa producing country when I got rid of forbidden food. But with time if you listen to your body the need to eat alot of unhealthy things fades, they lose that forbidden fruit appeal and you start to want more balanced things. My wants have included spinach, egg whites, strawberries, bran muffins, vanilla yogurt, almonds, etc... Yes, I still love chocolate, but having it here doesn't make me feel a need to binge because I know that it will be there whenever I want it.

But I do still like social meals, and cook them all the time. But I can snack before and eat according to my hunger when I do sit down. And there are days I don't eat with others. I liked the message, even if I don't carry it all the way all the time. I do what feels right (and that was the point, right?).

[Idara]

Totally namaste. Your view seems more like you have taken the things I would like to take. Taking care of others without feeling I have turned my back on the feminist movement but taking care of myself without guilt. And not eating too much choco lol.

You're my new hero:yay

[iwashere]

I'm bumping this up in the hopes that someone will provide new insights/approvals/criticisms on this book.