The Secret Language of Eating Disorders

[Thaleia]

Has anyone read the book the secret language of eating disorders by peggy claude-pierre? i am interested in what other fishies thing about her Confirmed Negativity Condition theory (i think that is what it is called) and if anyone has been or knows anyone who has been to the Montreux Counseling Center

lots of love and hugs to you all!

[shrimpy]

I think this is a book that would appeal to ANY committed anorexic. When I read it, I felt absolutely vindicated from any responsibility for myself and my behaviours. I found that it really gave me every justification I needed to say "I'm just too ill" and delve deeper into my disorder. I wouldn't recommend it at all.

Shrimps

[taratwentysix]

I agree one hundered % with shrimpy, it take ALL of the responsibility away from the eating disordered individual. When I read the book all I could think of was " see its not my fault, I cant help it" It gave me all the reason in the world to just get sicker, although she have a point about UNCONDITIONALLY loving the patient allot of her thinking is kinda backwards. I would not recomend it ...unless you are looking for a reason to STAY sick.

Love, Tara

[song and dance]

I have not read the entire book, but I didn't feel like what I did read described everything that was going on with me. It sort of worried me, though, because my boyfriend at the time read it and thought that it made perfect sense and that because he read it, he understood eating disorders. It just underscores my general concern about books on this subject: that friends or family will read them and feel that they understand what's going on with you without taking into consideration your individual thoughts and circumstances. I think that everyone is different, and we all need to remember this.

[Thaleia]

thanks so much for the responses! i agree that her approach takes a lot (or all) of the responsibility away from the eating disorded individual. however i thought that her unconditional love approach was kinda nice...sometimes i feel like the negative voice in my head is so loud and i am not strong enough to make it shut up...

however on some level i cannot relate to her daughters' experiences b/c i am not anorexic (i'm bulimic and i've been underweight but not like her daughters were) and i am aware of some of the issues that led to my eating disorder. like i definitely use it as a coping mechanism for stressful situations and to avoid feelings...

other thoughts fishies?

lots of love and :gimmehug :gimmehug :gimmehug s to all of you

[Sylphlover]

Thaleia:

I actually saw the book differently as most others. The unconditional :love that Peggy speaks of in the book is beautiful :gimmehug

While reading the book years ago I thought of Peggy as a beautiful :angel who provided me with validation as a lovely person who deserved to be :love and respected

I could relate to the book in many ways. I haven't read it in a long time but I do hold it near and dear to my :love

[Thaleia]

Sylphlover,
i am glad to hear i am not the only one who was touched by the unconditional love that peggy claude-pierre spoke of. i'm so happy to hear that the book was helpful to you...lots of :gimmehug :gimmehug :gimmehug :gimmehug

[bohemian_delite]

When I read it, I felt absolutely vindicated from any responsibility for myself and my behaviours.
Speaking both from my own personal experience and observation of others', this happened quite frequently at the clinic... the patients were spoon fed (both literally and figuratively!) the notion that they had no responsibility in their recovery. Consequently, there was a tendency among patients to cling to either the illness, the montreux milleiu, or both.

it was a very strange environment, to say the least. i've heard the terms "brainwashing" and "cult" thrown around to describe montreux, and i can't say that such descriptions are far from the truth.

[Thaleia]

ihaveissues,
thank you so much for sharing your experience with us...did you find the montreux program to be helpful at all or was it just too strange? i am shocked that patients aren't encouraged to take any responsibility for their own recovery...

hope you are doing well! :gimmehug :gimmehug :gimmehug

[littleroom]

I just wanted to chime in on this discussion because I actually went all the way to Victoria Canada to meet Peggy because I was so touched by her story when it was on twenty-twenty a long time ago. I also read her book cover to cover in a week.

That was some time ago, but I can tell you that Peggy had good intentions. I do agree with you who say that the approach at Montruex took a lot of the responsiblity away from the patient. There was a strange sort of vibe there at the clinic when I visited. But I won't ever forget Peggy because my experience with her was a positive one and she gave me a lot of encouragement. I was in the very beginning stages of recovery then too.

Thanks for listening.

--- littleroom

[Thaleia]

littleroom,
i'm so glad that you had a positive experience with peggy claude-pierre. i admit i am a little off-put by her techniques but if she is helping to heal people with eating disoders than more power to her!

lots of :gimmehug :gimmehug :gimmehug :gimmehug :gimmehug

[littleroom]

Thank you! :gimmehug:

Peggy came across to me as geniunely loving and caring. I think she probably needed to think a little outside of her box of techniques because I really believe her methods were powerful, but she should have also incorporated some other techniques as well.

--- littleroom

littleroom,
i'm so glad that you had a positive experience with peggy claude-pierre. i admit i am a little off-put by her techniques but if she is helping to heal people with eating disoders than more power to her!

lots of :gimmehug :gimmehug :gimmehug :gimmehug :gimmehug

[bohemian_delite]

no doubt peggy was a very charismatic figure. most cult leaders are (and i say that only half-fasiciously). she has been both deified and demonized by the media, and as someone who knew her quite intimately for a number of years, i can say that there is truth to both interpretations.

Personally, I did not find montreux to be helpful at all. i actually got worse (started purging, lost weight) while I was there. Admittedly, I was not "recovery-oriented" when I went (quite the opposite, in fact), but of the patients were. the typcial pattern i saw over the years (yes, years) that i was there was initial improvement, but after having been refed, an inability & / or unwillingness to re-integrate into society, and eventual relapse. And the clinic didn't exactly help push people out of the nest, so to speak... there was never any formal discharge planning; people just seemed to hang around until they were 'ready' to leave - which, as often as not, was never.

[openmyeyes]

I have heard of the book, as well as Paggy and Montreux. I've never been there, I've read some of her theories though, and I also read a book about a girl (Bronte... yeah yeah i plug this book everywhere but thats because I love it) who spent four years in her clinic (before it was closed due to inappropriate practices). The image I got was very negative, but that is just me. I do believe the unconditional love idea is a good one, though I can't say i agree with much else that she does/has done.

[bohemian_delite]

:hugon openmyeyes :hugoff

I personally KNEW bronte. i knew she was somewhat of a celebrity in australia, but i didnt know she wrote a book.

[openmyeyes]

Really!!!! WOW! Her book is "Bronte's Story. Tears, Trials and Triumphs: A personal Battle with Anorexia". Such a good book. I met her once, in September zero four, and then I got serious about recovery because she was such an inspiration, some of the things she said to me.

She has some pictures of when she was there, maybe you're in them lol.

[Thaleia]

her clinic was closed due to inappropriate practices? do you mean montreux was closed? what happened?

[openmyeyes]

The residential part of it was closed. A lot of different things were going on.

I think now she still does outpatient, and houses people unofficially.

I am divided on that issue. She has helped people, but she does do it in a very unorthodox manor.

[SarahPea]

I've recently read this book and found the beginning chapters be be an almost completely accurate depiction of what I feel and what thsi condition does to me. For that, I believe this book is a wonderful tool for helping people understand what this FEELS like and why I can't "JUST EAT" or "get over it." It made me feel no quite so alone. As for the treatment parts, I am not so sure. I like the unconditional love approach. I am, however, skeptical of the need to completely rebuild oneself and create an "identity." I also find her timeline to be unrealistic.

I think of confirmed negativity condition to simply be a mechanism to describe the self-defeating tendencies and negative affirmations that some, like me... have. My T describes it as "hypnotizing yourself" into believing illogical things are true (i.e. I'm FAT, I'm worthless, I'm a burden, etc). And I think there is little doubt that patterns of illogical negative thinking can reinforce and aid the disorder.

I didn't feel vindicated in continuing my disorder nor did I feel like it took responsibility away from me, but then again, I believe that the only way to stop the negative affirmation cycle is to interrupt it myself.

I suppose, like most things, it has it's valid points, but relying on it alone as a map or compass would not be wise.

My two cents.

[Thaleia]

SarahPea,
thank you for your two cents! i agree with you about the confirmed negativity condition... isee that just as the ED voice that constantly tells me im fat and unworthy of food...

openmyeyes,
i am also divided on the issue...i wish i knew more about it b/c i am very interested in different approaches to treating eating disorders since in mye xperience treatment has only been a temporary fix (been IP once, IOP, and lots of therapy and its been lots of relapses for me)

lots of love and :gimmehug :gimmehug :gimmehug :gimmehug to all of you

[caddywonker]

My mom and some of my siblings read that book, and it was embarrassing to me. I read it and couldn't believe that they read that same information. I honestly don't even remember much about the book, except that I was really embarrassed that my family thought that's what eating disorders looked like.

While I was at Remuda, there were two other girls who had been at Montreax (actually, they were there together....it was a shock to both of them when they ended up at Remuda together as well). They said that it was very easy to practice your eating disorder there, and that if you didn't want to recover you really didn't have to....it was really easy to get sicker, and to learn new tricks. One of the girls came to Remuda straight from Montreaux (or shortly after leaving Montreaux), and was really sick even though she had spent a significant amount of time there. She was sent home from Remuda to get more medically stable, and was going to go back.....but she died. My view of Montreaux is a little tainted because of that. I don't understand how you can "treat" someone for as long as she was there, and send them away worse than they originally were.

[Thaleia]

caddywonker,
omg, i completely agree with you...i don't feel that my eating disorder is like that of peggy's daughters at all (the dog food part disturbed me a little)....also it is unbelievable that there is a 'treatment center' where one could get substantially worse then when she was brought into treatment...

wow. that really shocks me. i'm very sad for that girl and her family.

on a side note, what did you think of remuda? im quaker but not sure how i feel about faith based treatment centers but i have heard good things about it

lots of love to all of you

[caddywonker]

I really liked Remuda for the most part. Their chapel worship was different than I'm used to, but I was able to kind of separate some of their beliefs from my own, and incorporate my own beliefs to mesh with theirs so that it worked for me (not that their beliefs were really any different than my own....just a few discrepencies here and there is all). I don't know enough about the quaker religion or lifestyle to know how well Remuda would work for you, or not work for you. In my experience though with Remuda, eating disorder treatment was the number one focus and priority. If you're ready to tackle that, then I think it's worth it.

[bohemian_delite]

One of the girls came to Remuda straight from Montreaux (or shortly after leaving Montreaux), and was really sick even though she had spent a significant amount of time there. She was sent home from Remuda to get more medically stable, and was going to go back.....but she died.
I knew that girl... we were roommates several times throughout our long stay at montreux (in fact, she was my first roommate), and were extremely close. Her name is Becca Heitling, and she has a candle on the memorial wall. :candle Like so many patients, I saw her improve, then quickly spiral back downwards. It was very disheartening. :cry I would like to clarify, however, that at the time she left, she was better (at least physically) than when she first came to montreux. Also, a major reason for her decision to leave was (first and foremost) the impending closing of the clinic, and the fact that she'd been there so long (almost four years) without substantial long-term improvement.

I was another patient who, after initial improvement, got "substantially worse" while at the clinic. :trigger I "taught" myself how to purge, and although I was officially on "full care", (i.e., a careworker was assinged to me twenty-four hrs a day, basically to make sure that I didnt engage in any ED behaviors... :ummm ) I managed to lose a substantial amount of weight, even though my weight was being monitored at the time . While certainly I don't *blame* the clinic for the escalation of my eating disorder (i must admit, i was more than pleased to get the weight off), my experience speaks to the fundamental problems of montreux's treatment.

Some other major issues, many of which were addressed in the liscencing hearing of nineteen-ninety-nine:

:bullet many of the patients were SEVERELY malnourshied at the time of their admission (some with feeding tubes and tpn lines still in place) -peggy wasnt exaggerating when she described them as "on death's door." nevertheless, there was no doctor or nurse on staff, and many new patients didn't see a doctor for several days after their admission

:bullet Patients were force-fed in various ways, including allegations of using a spoon to pry open patient's mouths. As for myself, at times I was held down by two careworkers, one of whom would shove a sports bottle full of Boost plus into my mouth.

:bullet A three-year old boy was "treated" at the clinic (a violation of liscening regulations), and one of his primary caregivers was a patient who was, herself, quite ill

:bullet In fact, in was common practice (especially in the earlier years of the clinic) for current patients to work as caregivers, even when they were still obviously struggling with their own illnesses

:bullet Following the liscencing debacle, patients were frequently shuttled between apartments located throughout the city of victoria (in order to evade licensing regulations stipulating that more than two more patients being treated at a given site constituted a "clinic" - ie, if there were two or fewer, they could get around this regulation). for a period of several months, i lived in a two-room basement apartment of a montreux employee. it had no heat, no kitchen to speak of, and fuses that constantly blew... my parents were paying a significant amount of money for me to live in squalid conditions.

...this is just a snapshot of some of the negative aspects of montreux...

[Thaleia]

ihaveissues,
thank you so much for sharing that with us...i can't imagine how hard that experience must have been. does peggy still run a 'clinic' that way?

[caddywonker]

Ihaveissues -- Yes, it's Becca that I was referring to. I knew she had a candle on here....I wish there was some way I could leave just a short message on there, but I don't think I can (I've already emailed Kensington asking about it). Thanks for the clarification...I wasn't aware that she actually left Montreaux in better physical shape than when she went in. All I knew is that she left there, couldn't seem to stop her behaviors even at Remuda, and then she passed away. It breaks my heart. One day I had just gotten off the phone with my mom, and I was upset (not crying, but just really depressed). Becca noticed from across the room, came over and said, "You look like you could use a hug". I will never forget her. It's amazing to me how much impact one person can have.....I'm just one of tons of patients I'm sure Becca came into contact with, and although we weren't necessarily "close", her death devastated me. It affected all of us who were there with her.

I'm sorry you went through such.....difficult....odd...cruel circumstances while at Montreaux. Yes, I say "cruel" because that's what it is when you put someone in a basement apartment with no heat and call it recieving treatment.

[reddecember]

I read it several years ago and remember feelings somewhat disturbed by it. I also remember feeling embarrassed that people (without Eds) would assume all eating disordered people are like what she portrayed them as. Yes, I guess some are, but many aren't. And even though at the time I was looking for "excuses" for my Ed, and as much as I liked the idea of not having to take responsibility, something inside of me just knew she was wrong. I think it's great that she was able to help her daughters, but not every person with an ED is like them! What really bothered me was that in the beginning, when she was "helping" and "counseling" others, she didn't even have a degree. I think she did end up finally getting one, but I still don't trust her. I saw a documentary on her clinic a few years back, and it was really disturbing. I'm happy they shut her down. Just my thoughts. Sorry if I offended anyone she may have helped.

[bohemian_delite]

I read it several years ago and remember feelings somewhat disturbed by it. I also remember feeling embarrassed that people (without Eds) would assume all eating disordered people are like what she portrayed them as. Yes, I guess some are, but many aren't. And even though at the time I was looking for "excuses" for my Ed, and as much as I liked the idea of not having to take responsibility, something inside of me just knew she was wrong. I think it's great that she was able to help her daughters, but not every person with an ED is like them! What really bothered me was that in the beginning, when she was "helping" and "counseling" others, she didn't even have a degree. I think she did end up finally getting one, but I still don't trust her.

Yes, yes, and yes! In fact, I often felt like the "black sheep" of sorts because I didn't "hear" a "negative mind", and I wasn't the alturistic :angel angel that Peggy portrayed in the book. And no, she did not have even a BA in psychology... not that having one necessarily makes one an "expert", but at the same time, in terms of credentials, its pretty basic. Moreover, the clinic did not have a nutirtionist; meal plans were devised by peggy (again, no degree in nutrition, just her own "intuition", i guess :whateva ).

The clinic was actually allowed to stay open pending appeal, as long as they conformed with certain stipulations -- eg, an RN and RD on staff, among other things. even in the few months that the clinic remained open, turnover among these employees was high... lots of headbutting with the established administration, who were very much stuck in their ways and reluctant to change anything. to top it all off, THEY CONTINUED TO ACCEPT NEW RESIDENTIAL PATIENTS, even though it was clearly against the rules of their contiunance. Hence, existing patients were shuttled around so as to ensure that no more than two patients were at a given residence at any time.

When I left in August of MM, the clinic was going "underground", as was the term used - which, as far as my understanding goes, meant continuing to accept residential patients ILLEGALLY. Apparently, they have since established an outpatient program, but that was well after I left.

Becca's death was devastating to me... its hard to believe that its been almost six years now :cry. She was always SO supportive, so full of wise and encouraging words, even when she herself was going through so much pain. :sad When she left, she seemed so optimistic - scared, yes, but she always managed to portray incredible optimism and determination... she was going to attend college, going (so I thought) to get on with her life... I saw her go up and down in terms of recovery, and i thought maybe this time would be different. Even though I know the ultimate outcome, it's still hard to hear how rapidly she spiraled downward. :cry

[Thaleia]

i agree with ihaveissues. i definitely do not feel like the altruistic angel that she describes people with ED's as. and i am shocked to hear that there wasn't a nutritionist on staff at her clinic. she made up the meal plans herself?? that is so strange. i am really happy that she was able to help her own daughters...but it seems to me that things have gotten a little out of hand...especially keeping people in basement apartments with no heat, etc.

:gimmehug :gimmehug :gimmehug :gimmehug :gimmehug

[jenniepennie]

My mom is a psychologist so she had tonnes of books on eds which I used to sneak to read, or tell her I needed for a school project.

I was in the tenth grade when I read that book and the only thing I remember was how she talked about her daughter eating dog food from the dog dish.

And all I could think at the time was "now that is dedication".

Sick eh?

Unfortunately I wasn't at a good enough place to hear any of her positive ideas, I was basically reading the book to hear about her daughters' conditions.

After hearing all the feedback though, I don't think I'll bother with a second read, doesn't really sound worth it!

Take care everyone! :bounce

[Thaleia]

jenniepennie,
that is the part that really stuck with me as well....she took not being 'worth' food to a whole new level...and it really just disturbed me b/c i could not relate to the manifestation of her eating disorder....but i think i've already said that on this post.

but yeah, i wouldn't necessarily read it again, i think there are much better books out there. i just read one that was really good called Bulimia/Anorexia: The Binge/Purge Cycle and Self-Starvation. it talks a lot about bulimarexia which i think many of us have...

:gimmehug :gimmehug :gimmehug :gimmehug

[littleroom]

Wow, I also had no real idea of what happened at Montreux.

But I will say this. When her clinic was first aired on twenty-twenty many years ago, I was watching in my bedroom. Sick with a fever from the chicken pox (it sucks to get that late in life by the way) and also very sick with anorexia. My parents were watching the same show in the living room, and I didn't know they were watching. I was absolutely blown away that at the time they were even showing a clinic on television that dealt with the same disorder I had! Then I was blown away by Peggy and her approach. At the time I felt like she was the only one who "got" it. I bawled my eyes out watching the show and I was truly inspired to "get well" and also transform myself into a stronger person so I could then help those with eating disorders. After the show was over I went into the living room to see my father bawling and mother bawling. For them the show and the clinic was a direct insight to what their daughter was dealing with. It was a transforming time for my family. So Peggy means a lot to me in that respect. I feel terrible to hear that all of those things were taking place. I wrote a letter to Peggy back after I saw the show and to my utter amazement she called me at my home! Again, inspired by her and her geniunely compassionate heart I begged my mom to let me go meet her. And so we did. I went and visited Montreux for a day and the staff and patients were very sweet. Maybe some of you were there?

So yes, I think it is horrible that ultimately Peggy didn't manage the clinic appropriately or handled patients in a good way. But she inspired me to get well and so for that it will always be special. I also enjoyed the book and when I read it I felt it solidfied a lot of my feelings.

Thanks for listening.

--- littleroom

[Thaleia]

littleroom,
i am so glad that you were inspired to get better...we are all different and thus respond better to different treatment styles. lots of :gimmehug :gimmehug :gimmehug and hopes that you continue to do well!

[littleroom]

Thanks Thaleia!

:gimmehug

For me, Peggy was "like" an angel who came to me right at the right time in my life.

But I do understand how people would feel differently about all that went on at Montreux.

--- littleroom

[Taliska]

I read the book many years ago, and it made me feel utterly hopeless about ever recovering, as I knew there was no way on this earth I was ever going to recieve that kind of love therefore there was no way on earth I was ever going to get better. Reading it almost destroyed me.

The strength on recovery has to come from within us, because at the end of the day in the real world, we have to face the crap thats out there, it's not all roses and unconditional love, even if we're surrounded by supportive friends and family, there is still a lot of bad, negative stuff thats comes with life. We have to be able to deal with it on our own without the e/d.

If this book empowers and helps some people then I am very glad and would not take that away from them, but I personally would not recommend it to anyone.

Keep strong,

Taliska.

[bohemian_delite]

:hugon taliska :hugoff

I read the book many years ago, and it made me feel utterly hopeless about ever recovering, as I knew there was no way on this earth I was ever going to recieve that kind of love therefore there was no way on earth I was ever going to get better. While I'm no defender of peggy or the montreux clinic, this really wasn't her intention in writing the book. However, I can see the message could easily be miscontrued by someone who already has a general sense of despair :cry

The strength on recovery has to come from within us, because at the end of the day in the real world, we have to face the crap thats out there, it's not all roses and unconditional love, even if we're surrounded by supportive friends and family, there is still a lot of bad, negative stuff thats comes with life. We have to be able to deal with it on our own without the e/d
Well-put. I agree completely. Its very true that one of the main philosophies of the clinic was to protect the "fragile" patient (to the point that we weren't allowed to watch the news, lest we be troubled by all the ills of the world). But ultimately we have to face reality, and that is one area (among many) in which the clinic was sorely lacking.

I hope you are finding :peace peace w/i yourself... :love

[Thaleia]

i agree competely that we all need to learn how to face reality...that is one of my biggest problems. i just want to hide in my apartment with my cats and my eating disorder so i don't have to deal with the problems of the real world...

thanks all you guys for making this a very interesting and though-provoking thread

[bohemian_delite]

you're welcome, :hugon thaleia :hugoff Thanks for giving me an excuse to regale my montreux saga... its an experience (if three years of one's life constitutes "an experience" :wacky ) that i generally keep to myself, and it feels good to vent about it now and then

[Thaleia]

ihaveissues,
vent all you want!!! three years is a very long time and i can't even imagine what you went through :gimmehug :gimmehug :gimmehug i would like to hear more about it any time you wish to vent some more.

[KathrynTheCat]

Hey,
I can't say I've read the book as I was so appalled by the viewpoints of someone who is supposed to understand and assist people with ED when it came across that she had absolutely no idea. I was so put off by the end of the first couple of chapters that I put the book down and haven't picked it up since. Apparently Bronte Cullis (query on surname), author of the book 'Bronte's Story', had a Really horrible time at the Montreux Clinic. She wouldn't even go to see Peggy when she went to Canada to revisit the place where she spent about four yrs (I think). I don't like what I read that Peggy wrote in that book and it doesn't sound like it was a trauma-free experience for Bronte.
Kath

[bohemian_delite]

I don't like what I read that Peggy wrote in that book and it doesn't sound like it was a trauma-free experience for Bronte.
I can attest that it wasn't.

[KathrynTheCat]

To all,
I have just had time to read through all the replies (rather than the first msg in the topic). I am so shocked by what patients at the clinic went through. I do agree that perhaps her intention was good, initially, however why would someone do such drastic things instead of setting things up in a conventional way and incorporating the unconventional into that. Down the track I plan to set up a centre (in Oz as I know this place) where people can do day, wkend, residentials, and possibly some other programs depending on need, funds and availability. I do wish to use primarily the alternative therapies in the way of creative/performing arts, sand play, and many other things, however to get to that I am ensuring I have conventional qualifications and experience so that I have enough skill to not only meet government/health/etc requirements, but to also ensure the safety and wellbeing of clients. I am starting by completing a nursing degree (due to start this in ****wks), however I also have a background in performance, youth work, AOD education, and other. I will be able to make use of those skills, added to research, and also personal experience of going through ED, abuse, and other.

I am so pleased to hear that at least though traumatic, many of you came through and are at the very least still fighting ED today, even after horrible experiences. I am even more pleased to hear that Peggy did touch some people in a positive way. I am sorry that mu initial feelings on her book seem to have been backed up, not just by Bronte's Story, but also by the experiences of you remarkable souls who went there. I am in awe of your strength to come through and still be here, regardless whether still battling ED or not. I praise you.

Kath

[Thaleia]

Kathryn,
i am so pleased to hear that you are planning to open a treatment center - down the road as it may be! there are not enough places to go for all the people who need treatment. i was also shocked by how the patients were treated at montreux, especially since it seemd like peggy had a good heart...one never knows i guess

[KathrynTheCat]

Thaleia,
I'm looking forward to the centre too. It won't just be for ED. There are so few options and places for people, especially if they are not 'severe enough' for IP psychiatric that people with BPD, Dual Diagnosis, Ed, and other 'minor' issues get no help, or very little help. I hope that my heart's in the right place, but i do want to make sure i do things 'right'. combine conventional with unconventional, but via having conventional qualifications and qualified staff so that treatment is individualised etc. i just couldn't let someone live in the conditions that it seems peggy let some people live in. my feeling on peggy is that she does have a good heart, she just got carried away and forgot a few things (ok, went conpletely extreme). fingers crossed no-one else has to go through that ever again.
kath

[Thaleia]

kathryn,
i completely agree...there needs to be a place for people who allegedly aren't critical enough for IP but also can't get it together without.