Cell Phone Ban In New York School System

[Rayneonthemoon]

Mayor Repeats Policy: No Cellphones in School

(Article Taken From The New York Times)

By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN
Published: May Sixth Tw-Thousand-Six
Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg insisted yesterday that the city would not reconsider the ban on cellphones in the public schools despite a widening outcry from students, parents and public officials.

The mayor's comments, on his weekly radio program, came a day after Schools Chancellor Joel I. Klein seemed to suggest to the Daily News editorial board that he would consider a compromise that would allow students to take phones to school, set them aside and get them back at the end of the day.

The mayor said: "We are not going to allow iPods and BlackBerrys and cellphones and things that are disruptive in the classroom. Classrooms are for learning. Teachers cannot be expected to look under every kid's desk at what they're doing."

The school system has long prohibited students from taking cellphones into schools. But if they did not make or take calls in class, the rule was largely ignored until last month, when the mayor began a program of surprise security sweeps and metal detector scanning to guard against students carrying weapons.

Principals sent memos home warning that school safety agents would confiscate cellphones.

Angry parents called the phones a vital link to their children. In the past few days the protests escalated. The teachers' union urged that students be allowed to carry phones in school, but not use them. And members of the City Council and Public Advocate Betsy Gotbaum opposed the ban.

The mayor was dismissive of the teachers' union. "You wonder sometimes whether they're stopping to think," he said yesterday. "I think most teachers would argue that there should not be any of these devices."

In his meeting with The Daily News, Mr. Klein was quoted as saying that cellphones are "an enormous enforcement issue," but that he understood parents' desires for their children to have the phones after school. "So the question is: Can you find a solution to that?"

David Cantor, the chancellor's spokesman, said Mr. Klein was simply expressing regret that the ban was unavoidable. "He completely concurs with the mayor on this issue," Mr. Cantor said.

On his radio program, the mayor said: "We just don't have the ability to check the phones at the door. So I don't have any easy solutions for parents who want their children to have cellphones before school and after school. We just don't have the money or the space to have lockers and that sort of thing. It would be a nightmare."


I signed online and saw this pop up on my top news.... I was shocked !! Then again, when I was in school the more popular thing was pagers, it wasn't until the end of my highschool years that pagers were going "out" and cellphones coming "in" (haha, and that was in the late ninety's) Anyways, I found this to be very interesting !!!

They had a poll you could take at AOL top news - do you think Cell Phones should be banned completely, a rule enforced with restricted use, or no restriction at all ??

Most of the people (fifty-eight percent) voted restricted use, which is where my opinion would fall.. Now a-days, cell phones are a major hub in communication between people - and while I agree they are probably entirely "mis-used" by teens during school, I also believe they are vital in case on an emergency.. The least amount of votes on this poll (six percent) said there should be no restriction at all (which I found comical, those were probably the students who abuse the "priviledge, eh?)

So what are your thoughts??

[ribbon]

I think cell phones should be banned from schools. There's no reason kids need to be making and/or accepting calls during school time. They are at school to learn, not socialize. I know at times like during the Colombine shootings cell phones were used to call for help, but the amount of times that type thing will be necessary is almost nonexistant. Perhaps the schools can work out a compromise where kids can check their phones in before school and pick them up afterwards in case safety is a concern to and from school. Cell phones haven't been around for all that long and students survived fine without them.

[nc]

When my sons were in high school cell phones were not allowed. For those who drove they simply left them in their cars.

The problem is if you allowed kids to have them the majority would abide by the rules and just keep them in their bags until after school. But then you get the minority who do use them to cheat or as the article I read stated, used them for drug deals or to set up gang activity or fights at the school.

Cell phones are not vital. The school has phones in the office if a student needs to contact a parent. Generation after generation has gone to school with no cell phones and been just fine. If the schools are finding them disruptive then they are right to ban them.

[gone]

I don't understand why children need cell phones. It is baffling. If they have a job where clients need to get in touch with them at odd hours, I understand that. I am an adult and I have one that I keep in my car, just for emergencies, but that is it.

Kids used to use them in my school to set up drug deals. They were always doing raids on the bathrooms and punishing kids for doing that. I would be skeptical except one time I heard someone setting up a dropoff time, etc. on their cell in the bathroom. Sheesh.

[Dorian]

Interesting. I see no reason why kids shouldn't be able to have cell phones in school. In my opinion, cell phones are very important devices for communication with parents, etc., especially for kids in NYC who are - not dissimilar from kids all over I suppose - often going home to empty houses. Many homes no longer even have regular phones (most people I know have only cell phones and no land-lines any longer).

In my opinion, there should be a blanket no tolerance policy for the use of cell phones at school - they should be turned off upon entering campus and kept in ones bag/locker throughout the day. As with any other infraction, if a teacher sees a student using one, he/she should send the student to the office (or whatever other warnings hold these days). I'm not sure how concerns about students texting/calling each other is any different than the more primitive note-writing that was rampant in my elementary/junior high school.

I'm not a parent yet but I absolutely would want my child to have a cell phone to be able to contact me - or any other emergency contact - if needed, especially if he/she was walking home by him/herself in this day and age.

In my view, there's no need to ban them from school, but their use in the building during school hours should be prohibited - simply because its a distraction from the goal at hand: education. I think kids/teens should be allowed to hold onto them as a matter of safety. [The idea of checking in the phones at the start of the day to me is a ridiculous waste of some administrator's time; to me it makes more sense to enforce the no-use rule more forcefully. Although to be fair, even though I actively work with kids, I don't work with classrooms and certainly not with twenty-thirty kids at once, so it's possible my expectations for classroom management/monitoring of cell phone use (or note-writing, which would happen anyway - we're not going to ban papers/pens are we?) are too high.]

Just my thoughts.
Much :love
Kate

[LouisaN]

We used to get in trouble for having 'walk-mans' in class. They needed to stay in our locker. Any found in class were simply taken away by the teacher until after school.

I assume any logical group of administrators would try this route first. If it doesn't work, or causes too many 'discipline' problems, then they can ban them completely. Like nc said, cell phones are not vital. In case of emergency, I was able to call my parents from any office phone.

In a lockdown, we weren't able to talk at all. In the event that we would have had to leave the building, we would have been safe with staff. Even if high schoolers need to flee without staff, for whatever reason, I believe most are resourceful enough to find a way to contact their parents.

[nc]

Okay, here is a solution. If it is so necessary for children to be able to contact their parents allow those phones that only allows a child to call Mom, Dad and nine-one-one. That covers all basis and I know they sell them.

My guess is that there would still be an uproar.

[fishalthea]

I know cell phones are used to communicate between parents and kids but so what.

When I was in school we had payphones. We were only allowed to use them before and after school. Otherwise, if we needed to talk to our parents, we had to get permission to go to the office, where we could use the phone in an emergency. What is the problem with this system?

It shouldn't be up to kids in schools to handle emergencies. Its up to the adults in charge. If a phone call is necessary, then phones are available.

As a college student and a grad student in the years during which cell phones have become ubiquitous, I am certain the high school aged kids are not responsible enough to have phones in school. There is just no way that the rules would be respected. I mean, even many adults are disrespectful with their phones. I know in college classrooms, even when a "no tolerance" policy was in place for phones going off in class, we still had disruptions quite frequently. Recently, I went to a play on campus and I was disgusted at all the students around me who flipped open there phones to text or to just check to see if they had any calls. They did it constantly, and though it was silent just that little light shining was enough to basically ruin the experience. It was just plain rude.

I also know that cell phones are increasingly becoming a "bling" issue, especially for young kids. So this is yet another way for kids to try to separate themselves socially by having the most expensive phone, while the kids without money have no phone at all.

I'm not usually up for limiting rights in broad sweeping ways, but on this issue I feel very strongly. Cell phones, pagers, et do NOT belong in schools

:love althea

[Dorian]

:hugon nc :hugoff

I like your idea and it covers most of my concerns (assuming it also had room for other emergency contacts [since mom/dad may not be available] and like a nanny/grandparent etc.). If there is a way to feasibly make limited-use phone such as these, I think it's a great idea (in fact, I think they may already exist, it's sounding familiar).

In terms of respondents who say phones for kids are about "bling" or competitions - of course they partially are, and that's not what I'm supporting, but so are most things that kids do - if they're not competing about phone "bling" they're going to be competing about shoes/clothes/makeup etc. Because I see it as serving safety and contact, I think the pluses outweigh the minuses.

For those who say that "in my day" etc. we all got on fine without cell phones, well times are different now. Again, everyone feels differently but I'd want my child to be able to have a cell phone and be able to contact me if she/he felt in danger. Sure it's the school's responsiblity to keep kids safe but they can't always and what about the walk/ride home? In NYC payphone are basically obsolete and in most other communities, they're not on every corner either. I'd feel much safer if my child (when I have her/him!) could reach me. I see it as my responsibility to teach my child to use the phone responsibly and to know when it's okay to use and when it is not appropriate/acceptable (i.e., during school hours).

This is an interesting issue.
:love Kate

[fishalthea]

:hugon Kate :hugoff

I guess I am just looking at it from a student's perspective.

I don't have a child. I have no idea what its like to be a mother. So I do have a limited view.

For those who say that "in my day" etc. we all got on fine without cell phones, well times are different now

Excellent point. Its almost funny how much I sound like my mother sometimes. You are right though. In my grandfather's time, there weren't schoolbuses. They walked. But that just isn't feasible now, for practical as well as safety reasons.

Still, I do think there are solutions that can keep kids in contact with their parents if need be, without letting them have cell phones in school. It might take some work to come up with a solution that makes everyone happy but it is possible. But as I've said, I'm not a parent, so I guess I jumped to my initial reaction without considering my limited viewpoint.

:love althea

[joelle]

I think the idea of phones for emergencies only, that have Mom anbd Dad's number is grest. There are also ones that just have a nine-one-one button.I personally don't have a cel phone, because I hate the idea of people always being able to reach me.I'm a loner... :cute However once we have kids we'll probably get one for going out an so forth...I'm not entirely sure yet...It is a different era, an dI was tempted to say in my day too...:hugonDorian:hugon you made me pause and think about howe many times my parents said ''in our day we didn't need...'Times have changed and in our day there were things we weren't allowed also. Every generation has thier battles.

[ribbon]

For those who say that "in my day" etc. we all got on fine without cell phones, well times are different now.

Yes, times are different, and the changes society embraces are not always positive ones. Children are in school to learn. There are so many distractions in today's society in and out of the classroom that take the focus off education. If a parent needs to get in touch with their child for an emergency, the can call the prinicipal's or guidance counselor's office. Most classrooms have phones in them, which then didn't have back when I was going to school. It's easy to call in or call nine-one-one if necessary. In this age of computers, video games, TV programming twenty-four/seven kids don't have enough time away from all of that electronic stimulation.

[ksara]

My children carry cell phones but keep them shut off during classroom times. That way if there is an emergency, they can contact me and if I need to get in touch with them, they can check for messages after class time. I think that is pretty standard, anywhere I've lived anyway, and a happy compromise. I trust my children aren't using the cell phones for inappropriate purposes and we share a bank of minutes between all four of our phones.

We live in a really nice area and my daughter goes to a great high school, but recently there has been some group of hoodlums in a car going around and shooting the students who are walking to and from school with air guns. Air guns don't sound really bad, but they do leave little bullets and there is always the possibility that a bullet could hit an eye. Consequently I've insisted on giving my daughter rides to and from school and while technically she could call from a pay phone when her activities are over, the cell is very convenient.

[Dorian]

:hugon bowl :hugoff

One of the reasons I enjoy posting here is that I appreciate this as a forum for expressing my opinion - and hearing and considering others. Thanks for helping me to feel comfortable doing so.

:hugon ksara :hugoff
Thanks for sharing your daughter's experience.

:hugon ribbon :hugoff
Similarly, thanks for voicing your opinion. I appreciate your points but respectfully very much disagree.

:love Kate

[LouisaN]

I've worked for six years in a school with a couple thousand students. Haven't even seen one on their cell phone yet, so now I'm curious as to what our policy is. I've let several students use my room phone when they need to get ahold of a parent. If it's an 'emergency' they can go to the office during class. Or they can pull my phone outside the door.

If cell phone are causing serious disruptions, it's only right for the administration of a school to look at it. It's easy to assume all children act appropriately, since the ones we are closest to do. But it isn't the case. It might not be fair, but rules usually do benefit all students, as they strive to eliminate distractions.

Like I said, I doubt the NYC administrators have simply overlooked the idea of letting cell phones sit in lockers or be powered off during class time. For whatever reason (text messaging most likely), their previous policy was not working.

I think their is some good in letting young people learn how to be resourceful. We are teaching them that the instant they need an answer, they can get it. Sometimes I find it difficult to teach in these times of instant gratification. If my phone rings, I might not get the message for a couple hours. If it's an emergency, my family and close friends know how to find me sooner. But there is now the belief that we need to be able to get things right now...whatever it is. Like the friends who tell me..."can you hang on...I have another call?" Gee whiz....let them leave a message. Everything is so urgent. There is some benefit to letting kids find out when they can wait. As for those of us who are thinking of our particularly 'good' students or children, lets just remember that there is a whole world of children who are different. They deserve some direction, too. But I don't know why I need to teach them cell phone etiquette. I just don't see why they belong in schools. I do think it's fine to keep them in lockers, turned off. But I'm sure the NYC system has tried this and it is apparently not working.

There is not one person running the show, but a large team of administrators, educators, and board members involved in this decision. I'd hate to think that groups of parents could make decisions for my children over educators. While I might know what is best for my child, I might not know what is best for a large and diverse group of students in a public school setting.

[VeliaBelle]

I like this thread...it's a very interesting discussion.

I've got to say that I agree with Dorian's point that these are different times we live in. When I was in high school, times WERE different...in terms of fear of kids bringing dangerous weapons to school and using them. And metal detectors in schools don't always work, kids are still managing to get weapons into the classroom. Hence the ability to call for help immediately is I can see a valid issue.

But on the flip side I had a very annoying experience a few weeks ago in one of my classes where a fellow student did not turn her cell phone off in class. It rang during a group presentation...smack in the middle of it and completely threw the group off track. The teacher had to stop them and give a few minutes for the presenting people to re-group.

Also in that class, another girl spent hours with her head pointed down at her lap texting through her cell phone during almost every class. It was very distracting...especially since it was a public speaking class and for almost every speech each of us gave, no one could get her to even pay attention to one word they said.

So it is a HUGE distraction and a major annoyance...especially in the learning environment. I don't know if I really see any good compromise here.

Belle

[Vicks]

I didn't see anyone write why they are being banned, one reason they are being banned is because students were useing them to cheat on tests. Another reason they are being banned is because students were useing them to organize fights. The third reason, distraction.

I could do the "in my day" line, but I won't, my husbands grandparents always think it is strange when I tell them that I really don't need our second car because I take the bus to work, or for that matter that I needed a cell phone all the time. They think those things are necessitites in life no matter what. I think differently, but it is because I can and not being in contact with my husband twenty four seven is ok.

Anyway I do have a cell phone, which is off most of the time, because I don't beleve in having them on at work, nor usein gthem on the bus, at restaurants, or movies. As for students, well unfortunately a few bad apples ruin things, and in this instance, the NYC schools do not have the funding to have lockers, and/or even check students before they come to school. The solution, well, have pay phones around, for kids to use. Or allow students to have phones that are now made for very young kids, that are programmed only to make and receive calls from certain individuals. I understand parents wanting to be in touch, but for decades not being in touch twenty four seven was ok, I see no reason why it can't stay that way.

Yes, it is no longer the fifites, and heck I have a T-Mobile Sidekick and am a "Techy" a hundred percent, but I do think, we all need to in some ways at times, unplug, and focus, and at school, I don't htink "unplugging" is such a bad thing.

Vicks

[LouisaN]

In terms of times being different, I agree. There definitely is more violence in schools. But what are the teachers and administators and safety guards there for? If someone came into my school with a gun, I'd hope the first person to notice would alarm everyone so we could lock down. Then nine-one-one can be dialed from any room or office. Using a cell phone to call mom or dad would be simply dangerous. In a lockdown or dangerous situation, students are instructed to be completely silent. Teachers and staff are typically trained to handle these situations the best they can...and so are to cops who hopefully respond. A cell phone ringing, especially if someone answers it, during a lockdown, would simply defeat the purpose....clear signal to the attacker of where people are hiding.

Let's remember that as times have changed, so have schools and so have teachers. Teachers and staff working directly with students will HELP them in an emergency. If we let our students believe that only their parents can respond to their emergency situations, we aren't teaching them how to be very resourceful. What happens when noone answers the other line? Or do we need to have our cell phones on at all hours of each day..right by our side in case of an emergency? My biggest hang up is that this does not teach children to be resourceful in a crisis and it does not give them a chance to trust others to know how to help them in an emergency situation.

[VeliaBelle]

:hugon Louisa :hugoff

You have some really great points, about students relying on teachers and staff to take control of dangerous situations, and I really enjoyed reading your ideas. Thank you!

One quick question for you (as you are an experienced teacher and I would appreciate you view on this), are there back-up plans in case the teacher in a class in the first to be incapacitated by a student?

I'm curious for selfish reasons because as a future parent, I like to keep informed of how the school systems handle changing times...you know?

Thanks again for sharing your views!

Belle

[fishalthea]

:hugon LouisaN :hugoff

I love your point about teaching kids how to be more resourceful. That is so true. At a certain age, it becomes important for kids to start to learn that mommy isn't always going to be there at the push of a button.

I know this might anger some parents in the :bowl who are trying to deal with career/family/kids/recovery all at once. I know that is a lot. But I think this issue reflects the broader problem of kids being parented in a way by technology. I'm totally a feminist and I support women having both children AND careers, if they want that for themselves. But the parents I know who give their kids phones often have the argument that their child uses the phone to call them at work at three-thirty and say "I'm home." So then the parent feels safe that the kid made it home okay and has that peace of mind. Then they spend the rest of the afternoon at home watching tv and playing video games and surfing the net. Sure, it makes it easier for both mom and dad to work full time. But at what price?

I KNOW this is not always the case and that there are other reasons parents give kids phones, to those of you in this thread who are parents. But it IS very very common that phones do more to keep us apart than to bring us together. Again, this is just my opinion as a non-parent.

:hugon Belle :hugoff

One quick question for you (as you are an experienced teacher and I would appreciate you view on this), are there back-up plans in case the teacher in a class in the first to be incapacitated by a student?

I know this question isn't directed toward me, but my mom and two sisters teach so I just thought I'd say that in my state at least, there are now drills to deal with situations like natural disasters, kids with guns, etc., that teach kids what to do to get themselves safe and to alert another adult. I don't know how closely a group of panicked kids would follow these plans if it came down to it, but they do have drills just like we always had fire drills and stuff like that. Its really scary though-I mean, those fire drills always seemed like a fun excuse to get out of class when I was a kid, but I think a "terrorist drill" or something like that would really freak me out. And its crazy how fast this has become an issue. I mean, I am not that old, and this was unheard of when I was in high school. :ummm Poor kids.

(Hey, you know, its pretty ironic-the very technology that we use to make ourselves feel safer and more knowledgable about this stuff is the same technology that people use to plan it and carry it out-computers, cell phones, the internet.)

:love althea

[LouisaN]

Belle,
Kids in our school have had drills. They know what happens, whether a teacher is around or not. Since we are often the last in our rooms before locking them, keeping an eye to make sure everyone is in, it is probably more likely that a teacher would get caught in the way....as they make it their job to protect children in dangerous situations. We have evacuation routes. These things are hard to perfectly plan for. I believe most schools are doing the best they can to address these potential dangers. But what it comes down to...a cell phone won't help anyone in immediate danger such as this. This is where authority within the building takes charge. Police are contacted immediately. All other emergencies are also handled by staff.

My parents never led me to believe that I could only depend on them. I fainted at school once. Of course my teacher took care of me. A nurse was called down immediately. I couldn't have called mom anyway!! My teachers were always there for me when they needed me. I became more trusting and resourceful as a result. And now, as an adult, I can't always call mom and dad. They can't answer all of my questions and solve all of my problems. Sometimes I need to talk to another musician, sometimes another teacher, sometimes a doctor. There are few emergencies, but when they come up....I know where to get help. Usually the help right next to me makes the most sense. Mom and dad are hundreds of miles away!!!

I understand the fears parents have. Trusting school faculty and staff to take care of their children takes some guts and a tiny bit of willingness to trust the world in general. We can't control everything and we can't be their for our children to solve every problem they will have. This is how they learn to depend on others and themselves. Let's not let them assume they can only depend on one or two people (parents).

[VeliaBelle]

:hugon althea, Louisa :hugoff

Thank you both a bunch for your input on this! It does help a lot to ease my fears about what will happen when my kids (my eventual kids that is, lol!) go to school. Just the thoughts and worries about raising kids these days and not always being able to protect them or to have them as close as a phone call at times can be somewhat nerve wracking. I'm sure I'll get over that though and welcome a bit of a break as they go to school! :sarcasm

Sorry to go off on a ramble here to all who have participated in this thread and again, thanks :hugon althea and Lousisa :hugoff for indulging in my questions here!

Belle

[Dorian]

:hugon :bowl :hugoff

I have followed (and responded to) this thread with much interest. In the course of reading more recent responses I have been given pause for thought. I wonder how much of my want that kids have access to cell phones etc in school due to my concern about their safety is really more a reflection of my own anxiety - which is a much larger issue [for me] than this cell phone question. On the cell phone front, I will say that for the most part, I think kids are relatively safe in school and I do trust them to be resourceful and to rely on the teachers for support - for me, I am largely concerned about their walk/travel home, and I think having a cell phone on this walk would make me feel better about letting kids walk home.

I am not a parent yet (I'm so deeply involved in my work that I can't imagine having kids for another few years at this point), but I am influenced by the media coverage of child abductions/murders/abuse. I have a "problem" with feeling overly responsible for people, and feeling it is my responsibility to protect them [perhaps because I really wish people would do a better job protecting me so that I could relax and let my guard down a bit], and I imagine this relates to my desire for kids to have access to as much safety as possible in schools and out of schools.

I do appreciate the points that a more powerful lesson to children would be the message that for the most part they are safe, and if there are times when they're not, the teachers are there to help guide them. I think accepting and teaching this message will require a bit of letting go of my own anxiety. So you see, I have a few things to work on in the next few years before becoming a parent myself... :winky

Thanks for making me think!
Much :love
Kate

[LouisaN]

Kate...lots of parents are anxious. And of course they have right to be. We aren't guarenteed safety. And we hear horrible stories of kidnapping and shootings every once in a while. It's enough to make it really hard to let children go out into the world. But we can't cling to them...it's a tricky balance of knowing when to hold on and when to let go i'm sure.

As for the walks home, a cell phone would be convenient. But in an immediate emergency (kidnapping), this won't likely help. Unless the kidnapper is an idiot and lets a kid pull off a phone call. This is where you teach children to take routes more traveled, walk with friends if possible, and stay clear of strangers. If anyone pulls over or slows down, be suspicious and ready to run. If someone tries to grab you, kick and scream, lay on the ground and scream, kick them in the groin...do anything BUT get in the car. But...a cell phone won't save you.

I know cell phones are convenient. When I'm traveling I keep mine in my purse in case I need directions or help along the road. Noone will argue that they aren't helpful. But I don't know that it is worth petitioning the board of education when they try to ban them from school. Phones are available in each room of my school building. For all immediate emergencies, they are not the answer. For little emergencies (fainting, breaking an arm), they aren't the answer either. Someone else will gladly make a call for the student!!! It seems to come down to convenience and parent anxiety....the belief that cell phones are necessary and that they can connect with their children twenty-four hours a day.

Those who have abused the system were not likely calling mom anyway. It is unfair that a few can screw things up. But that's how schools are. Outside of school...it's all up to students and parents. But within the school, each administration needs to find a system that maximizes safety and education and eliminates distractions for the greatest ammount of students.