Urgggg!!!

[Marigold]

Looks like Bush has won it.(no smilie can possibly express my emotions)...

But here's a poem to express a *bit* of my turmoil:

How could they have Voted in this way?
The Evangelical Christians Bush did sway!:reallymad

Oh well, who knows for sure?

Ohio has provisional votes to be counted - so we must endure

To the very very end to hopefully see

If :starsKerry:stars will reach Victory!!!!

For myself, I must admit

I don't know if I can take four more (loooooong) years of more Bush (the nitwit!!)

-Marigold:sun

[lexie]

oops he did it again :ugh ...I am very disappointed :mad
I can't imagine another four years of Bush's foreign policy boo boos, religious rhetoric, and narcissism...God help us

[lexie]

and what's even scarier...Republicans have won seats in both the House and the Senate and in several states, people voted to approve bans to same sex marriages...it's just scary as a "liberal" to come to term w/these things....

[Millificent]

My brother has friends who are going to be moving to Canada if Bush is reelected. They can't stand living in this country any longer while he's President.

There's still hope for Ohio - the Red Sox just won, remember!

:dragon Millie

[SanFran]

I'm truly saddened by Bush's victory. It worries me, as racism and environmental destruction were rampant over Bush's past term. Plus, I fear the reversal of Roe vs. Wade and ruling against same sex marriage (or even unions!). When we don't allow people to be who they are, to act on behalf of themselves and others, we are taking away from the very essence of our country.

[IthinkIcan]

The election isn't over, although one thing is certain: the decision has already been made. We have started to see the outcome of some of these decisions.

For fishies not in the US, eleven STATES (I said countries, oy, which kinda reflects my feelings about the electoral college--guess the fresh air woke me up) have approved state constitutional amendments defining marriage as only between a man and a woman. Some states wording was such that this bans civil unions as well and may affect benefits to hetereosexuals in some situations.

The balance of power now also stands as thus: In the Senate, fifty-one seats are needed for majority, the Republicans now hold fifty-three and the Democrats forty-four. In the House two hundred eighteen seats are needed for a majority, the Republicans now hold two hundred twenty eight and the Democrats one hundred ninety-nine. In the gubenatorial races (governors), the balance is now twenty-eight Republicans and twenty-one Democrats.

State-funded stem cell research was approved in California.

Uh oh, gotta go. Time for a walk with my DOD (dear ole dad).

:love
me

[Millificent]

State-funded stem cell research was approved in California.
That part definitely makes me very happy! :yay to Ahnold for choosing to support such an important cause!

:dragon Millie

[sflathinker]

I want to remind everyone that some of these issues are personal for us who believe they should not be approved.

I love when people make comments like "if so and so is re-elected then I'm moving to Canada" Guys....this is a great country, we have a choice in who gets elected, more people chose the candidate you didn't vote for, however, imagine being told who is going to rule the country without having had a chance to vote.

[banjobaebee]

But If it weren't for rules, certain things would run overly rampant in our world. That's why we have traffic rules, rules against harming another person, and rules against multiple other things that completely make sense. Bush want's to keep marriage between a man and a woman as sacred. Those who are in same sex relationships can still have a union. Bush isn't outlawing it. Also, where is compassion when it comes to abortion? That's what it boils down to...compassion. When did other issues become more important that that? When did same-sex marriage become more important than that? What's more important than a soul?! This is just my opinion. I do respect the fact that others have their opinions, but nothing much has been said in Bushes defense here at the fishy board.

[joelle]

Same sex marriage is about souls...The two souls of the people wanting to spend the rest of thier lives together.As for abortion... I thought we weren't allowed to discuss it here. I hope that's right. Cause right now if this becomes an abortion debate. I'm sorry but I won't come back to the bowl. I find the previous comments unbearably hurtful.

[Spiritwind]

I am feeling really depressed by the results/this whole situation. I am trying to be optimistic that there is still hope for kerry but well.... I doubt it. My thoughts have been kind of spinning around in my head. I have been thinking about how lucky I am that I live in a city that is pretty liberal(I can't afford to move anywhere else) because I finally found a place where I fit in, and that is here. But I realise that a good part of my state I wouldn't fit in. (and probably a lot of the u.s...just because of all the "labels" that are attached to me and that others would consider me amoral just for associating with certain things/people)
I don't know I am just rambling.
I am just afraid of what might happen these next four years. I have thought about doing some activism again. It has been a few years since I have done that. I guess I just hate feeling powerless.

[SanFran]

Banjobaebee,
If there's one thing we can all agree on, it's compassion for others and our world. That thought really makes me smile. We just see it differently. This is not the place to get into abortion, but by not allowing members of the same sex to get married (or even have unions, as some states have now ruled), our society is giving the impression that homosexual relationships are somehow inferior, which can easily be translated into "homosexuals are inferior." I just don't see how gay marriage hurts anyone.

I do respect your right to voice your views, though, and am glad that you did! :butterfly

[sflathinker]

I don't think is the place to get into whether homosexuals should have the right to marry any more than we should be debating abortion. All of these issues touch someone, whether you are for or against that particular one.

[joelle]

Mara,

I disagree. I absoloutely think this is not the place to discuss abortion. Of course same sex marriage touches many people. Myself included as I have many gay friends. However I believe abortion to be different. I guess I consider it an unsafe topic here. I think there are other places where it can be discussed, and the fish bowl is not an appropriate place.

[sflathinker]

The key word here is YOU believe. I believe differently. Hence why I don't think any of the issues should be more important or more debatable then any other. Neither is a "safe" topic when people feel so strongly. Some people very strongly oppose gay marriage, some people very strongly oppose aborotion. But to suggest that one touches more people than the other...well that's nuts. Each impacts a great many people.

[ribbon]

I'm just waiting for my rights as a lesbian and as a woman to start being taken away :cry. Even though I can no longer biologically have children, I still consider that part of my rights.
If any Bush supporters are reading this, what are you personally going to do to help heal the country, because as leaders, that in part is the responsibility of the party?

[Jasella]

THIS IS A DEVASATING LOSS, FOR not ONLY the citizens of America, But for citizens around the WORLD ... What is the world coming to, HOW CAN ANYONE who believes in civil rights and liberties (world-wide) VOTE FOR BUSH.. ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[joelle]

Mara,first off. I didn't say one affects more people than the other. I said I don't think the fish bowl is an appropriate place to discuss abortion. And after rereading the guidelines for this forum. Apparently we are not supposed to. I think gay marriage absoloutely affects people and is an important topic. I believe it affects most people and I would never say abortion is more important. I said this isn't the place to debate abortion. please reread my commments.

[sflathinker]

All I am trying to point out is that many of these issues evoke a passionate response from either side. Most people don't feel ambivilence about it and I think in discussing "current events" we must remember that each person's emotions are running high.

Kerry supporters, what are you willing to do to make sure that "your" party comes to terms with this loss?

When the dust settles it isn't one party's responsibility to make sure that the country heals. This isn't about who is right/wrong, better/worse. Everyone needs to come together and heal. Isn't that what united means?

[ribbon]

sflathinker said: Kerry supporters, what are you willing to do to make sure that "your" party comes to terms with this loss?

When the dust settles it isn't one party's responsibility to make sure that the country heals. This isn't about who is right/wrong, better/worse. Everyone needs to come together and heal. Isn't that what united means?


I believe that leaders have the responsibility to hold out the olive branch, rather than rubbing in their loss I have seen as some republicans doing today.

[sflathinker]

I think Bush has not been rubbing it in anyone's face. I think that Kerry supporters would be reacting the same as Bush supporters if their candidate had won. Human nature to celebrate. Unfortunately, sometimes celebrating means saying "ha ha" to those who lost.

[sunshynehip]

Its times like this I am sooo happy to be a Canadian. I wanted Kerry to win soo bad - it really is such a dissapointment.

My heart goes out to all you Americans!

You're welcome over here any time!!! No war here!!

[joelle]

:loveI have to second Sunshynehip..You are all welcome in Canada!!! I'm feel so proud and profusely lucky to be a Canadian right now...However I'm also very sad and scared for the USA and the world. My heart beaks for everyone's who's basic human rights will be violated due to this outcome...:love

[IthinkIcan]

:hugon Ribbon :hugoff What can we do?

What do you suggest?

Is there any way I can help you today? And, Ribbon, hun, I mean this with utmost sincerity. You have been on my mind during all of this. I noticed you were conspicuously absent, quiet, and I worried of you. But I have to wonder how this really settles with you coming from someone who voted for Bush. Yes, I did. It's unpopular here, but I did.

I've tried to be careful in every word I've said during this tense twenty-four plus hours. Could someone pick something apart? Probably, but until I heard that Kerry conceded I felt anguished, torn apart, moved to tears numerous times. I still don't believe Bush has won. I worry of the "official count," which isn't in.

I desire unity in this country and would reach out to anyone who is hurting. I'm ready to do my part. Are the Democrats? I know I'm quiet today. Pensive. I wouldn't want to rub this win in anyone's face.

I have to wonder, though, how things would be if the tables were turned. Things at my husband's work are all but unbearable. Only five of fifty to sixty workers are Republican. The Bush bashing is uproarious. Look at it here. People are rubbing the win in our faces, which is interesting since Bush won in the electoral vote and popular vote (even more so). My daughter's friend's dad wouldn't even look at me today. Things have been tense since he learned I'm Republican, but today he ignored me, purposefully! I'm truly heartbroken. I knew that regardless of how this election turned out, our country is split in two.

We all need to do our part.

Because it's a democracy, though, that means we ought still have the right to believe as we do and be a united front.

So, I wonder, what can "we" do to help? Without compromising our freedoms and rights, which we exercised, how do we make you feel better?

I guess it seems to me that most things would seem empty sounding, because the thing you really want is change, and it now seems out of reach or of a threatening nature. You may want some sort of reassurance that those things are supported, when you've already seen they are not

and, god, Ribbon, it's even had me torn up today.

One can be "Republican" and care or vote a certain way because they leaned just a bit more that way.

Today I cry for our country, because either way they would have lost as far as I'm concerned.

[Kensington]

Abortion is not a topic allowed on the boards, as most people already know. The topic of gay marriage is allowed & has been discussed before, sometimes on the Spirituality board as there is the debate as to whether or not it's a religious topic or a current events one.

Is this a great country? Not in the way it was four years ago, in my opinion. I'm not in the mood to sit around waving a flag today & saying, "I love my president, even if I didn't vote for him!", even if that is considered the p.c. way to act by some.

[ribbon]

What can you do, thanks for asking :hugon ITIC :hugoff. I'm not speaking for anyone but myself and I am speaking you in the plural.

:bullet You (and I don't mean you personally, I'm talking collectively) can be gracious in your celebrations and try not to rub it in to people who voted differently.
:bullet You can refrain from using the word morality as a judgment of my beliefs.

:bullet You can refrain from telling me that god wanted this, because when I hear or read those words (which I already have, off line and on another, less polite message board) it evokes strong feelings against your belief(s), which I take full responsibility for. I do not want to harbor these feelings. It's much easier for me to be welcome and accepting of others personal beliefs when mine are also respected.

:bullet You can be sensitive to the difference between me as a person and the issues I believe in, just as I am of yours.

I was devestated this morning when I woke up, because I am afraid for my future rights. I was at the grocery store and this :reallymad asshole customer was going up to the other customers laughing and saying that Kerry was immoral if he had won there would be more rapes in the world :wacky. I realize that he is not representative of most republicans, but that was the last thing I wanted to hear at eight am.

[banjobaebee]

joelle and other fishies, I'm sorry I hurt you. I was being insenstive about the abortion issue by not even thinking about how my words could have effected people personally here at the fishy board. I also did not realize that abortion shouldn't be discussed here. I was just trying to make a point with my examples. I apologize for offending anyone. I understand politics and things such as abortion and homosexuality are very sensitive subjects. I whole heartedly do not judge anybody who is lesbian and that is the absolute truth as I have delt with loved ones and friends in the situation. I don't mean to use morality as a weapon. When talking about politics, morality is a huge issue when it comes to the issues we vote for or against. I do have my opinions on morality and what I think it right, but surely know I am not perfect. There are just certain things I feel deeply and believe in and the some of the liberal ideas are completely opposite of how I feel about them. I feel bad for those who feel the win of George W Bush is being rubbed in their face as I'm sure it is at times. My brother voted for Kerry and I surely won't be rubbing it in his face. Before I knew Bush won I hoped he wouldn't do the same to me. But I guarantee Kerry supporters would've done the same things Bush supporters have done even though it isn't right. I feel a little frustrated that there is so much bad talk about George W. Bush. It's all over the internet and it was before the election. That feels terrible to read these things also and to hear the insults against those who support our President. I think it all just goes around in a circle. Without politics most of us would get along despite our differences.

[IthinkIcan]

Thanks :hugon Ribbon :hugoff

I think over time you have sort of taught me not to do those things in relation to this, anyhow, and I hope and believe I have not done this, well, at least during this past twenty-four hours as I said when I've tried to be uber sensitive to both sides. Thus, something truly wonderful has come out of my interactions with you on the boards, this one in particular. I will try to remember this not just for now, but for a good long while (four years would be a good goal, though with some of these things it would be difficult).

I will certainly try to do these things and to pass them along if it is okay with you. Any others think these things would help?

I will personally :challenge myself on the "m" (morality, y'all) word. I rather believe it will become a catch-phrase of sorts. It was being used often even last night. Sometimes I used it for a lack of a better word. The channel I watched showed one of the commentators getting all up in arms about this word also, so I know it's a volatile one. Evidently a lot of people find it a relative term, and opposite sides on an issue would both find themselves moral and needing the opposite to change to achieve morality. Thus, it is always judgmental. Better word people?

Thank you, Ribbon for taking the time to sincerely respond to this. It means a lot to me, and I will definitely :challenge myself to put these healing principles to work, even if helps but one person.

Take care of you.

[IthinkIcan]

Morality is a relative term, and opposite sides on an issue would both find themselves moral and needing the opposite to change to achieve morality. Thus, it is always judgmental.

New "quote," to quote, myself :sarcasm

[ribbon]

:hugon ITIC :hugoff it means a LOT to me that you asked. I could tell from your posts yesterday and today that you were sensitive to other's opinions about the election and I appreciate it.
I want nothing more than to live in a country that is united, not divided, the way we were right after september eleventh :septll. All I wanted today (except for a recount :muhaha , hust kidding, I admire the way Kerry has handled this) was for republican(s) to reach out and ask me how we can help heal the nation.
:hugon Kensy:hugoff Is this a great country? Not in the way it was four years ago, in my opinion. I'm not in the mood to sit around waving a flag today & saying, "I love my president, even if I didn't vote for him!", even if that is considered the p.c. way to act by some.
I :ear you. Last I heard free speech is still alive and maybe not well :winky in the country.

[SFishy]

From dictionary.com

Conservative: Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
One favoring traditional views and values.

Liberal: Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
A person with liberal ideas or opinions.

We need to be civil to one another. Our country is deeply devided and it's time for it to stop. We should be able to be accepting to one another, differences of opinion or not.

While I agree some have been incredibly supportive to one another in this thread, I don't want this post to go down the path of debating abortion or imposing judgement on others beliefs/values/morals.

Emotions are running high right now. We must remember this is a SUPPORT community.