Pen Pals Across the Pond

[SFishy]

I'd been following this story for the last week or so -- where people in the UK could sign up through a newspaper known as The Guardian for penpals to write to in the United States. The goal? To write to swing voters in Ohio and have the opportunity to express their opinion about our upcoming elections.

U.S. Policies often have implications for people around the globe, yet they cannot vote in our process. The Guardian came up with this creative way to help their English readers feel even a little bit a part of the process.

Now, I'm not a swing voter, nor do I live in Ohio. What I do know is that I am an open-minded and generally a polite person. Had I received one of these letters would I have been annoyed or felt put-out? No. If I disagreed with it's contents I'd simply put it aside.

What I was appauled by was the Americans who chose to write back mean-spirited, nasty letters. Ignorant statements made expressing tihings like "there was a purpose to the revolutionary way -- mind your own damn business." Or "brush your teeth you animal". Some of these people said these things without even receiving a letter!

I'm all for using your voice (as everyone knows) -- but JEEZ, can we do it without tossing around degrading insults? Can we hear other's opinions without needing to bad-mouth them or launch an attack? Can we be receptive to what others think without it meaning we have to fire-back in some way? And can't people be at least CIVIL to one another?

I'm sorry, but if this is the attitude people wish to take about our relationship with the rest of the world, it's no wonder we, as American's, are often seen as arrogant, egotistical, uneducated and shallow. I'm all for standing up for my country and for being a proud American, but it's time like this I'm saddened and ashamed.

"Can't we all just get along" sounds quite hokey, but the sentiment is there. If we are going to beat this "war on terror" we can only do it when we've got friends by our side. If we continue to give other countries a reason to be pissed off at us, we are only going to find ourselves alone and in even more danger. It's a sad state of affairs when we cannot even take a well-meaning letter from a stranger half way around the world, and get one thing positive out of it, but instead, find reasons to hurl hurtful remarks at its writer (or the country).

Take care of YOU

[Catherose]

I personally would be annoyed if someone from England wrote me a "friendly" letter "encouraging" me to vote for a particular candidate. I don't think foreigners would appreciate our advice either on how they should vote in their own elections. The letters are perhaps "well-meaning," but also insinuate that we can't make decisions for ourself. I guess I would feel a little insulted as a recipient of those letters. I'm also really sick of the automated messages I've been getting about local assemblymen, etc. I don't think telling a person to vote one way or another is generally a good idea. If you have something to say about a candidate- do research, write an article, make info available for those who seek it. And aren't these people writing the letters just average citizens without any particular expertise that average American citizens lack? It's not as if they're political scholars or anything. The letters are generally harmless I suppose, but as I said I'd feel pretty insulted if I got one. Writing nasty letters to British people is a pretty immature thing to do, but when you offer unsolicited advice people often get pissed. Though I'm not trying to excuse Americans who hurled ignorant insults at other people, please consider how you would feel if someone who you didn't know and who was not elligible to vote in your election wrote to you asking you to vote for Bush. You would at the very least roll your eyes- or maybe I'm just speaking for me. I know I wouldn't like it though.

[macgirl]

I've followed the letter-writing campaign with interest, as I'm an avid Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/) reader (even while in the US).

I am interested to read the responses from :usa. (while I live in the USA, I was born in the UK). I don't think the letter writing campaign was just about voting for a particular candidate (although obviously some might see it as such). I don't know how many people in the US quite realize the negative impression people around the world have about their country. Perhaps they don't care. For myself, even though I have taken American citizenship, I am reluctant to label myself as American, in part because of the stigma attached.

Outsiders do not have a good opinion of this country. Does this matter to you?

[hopeovertherainbow]

I'm a :uk. I don't see what the difference between receiving a 'friendly letter' through the post and maybe a leaflet/article from that particular candidate is. At the end of the day this sort of propaganda is all part of the election campaign. I do think it was wrong of the guardian to interfere in this way, because its nothing to do with them, but at the end of the day any open minded individuals won't take any notice of this. So I don't see it as a big deal. I see my vote as very important and at the end of the day the reason i would vote for one politician over another is because of the policies only offer, not because i had a letter, it wouldn't influence me at all. Any other open minded individual would see that too. Long live Tony Blair!

[ribbon]

Just what this country needs, another reason to be hated in the world. Why is it that some of us :usa think it's okay to act like we're better than the rest of the world and that we don't have to subscribe to any ethical or even polite social norms. I hope that changes starting November third with a new president who actually cares about our place in the world.

[sflathinker]

I am annoyed that people from my party leave messages every day "reminding" me who to vote for. I would be equally annoyed if I received a letter from anyone, us citizen or not asking me to vote for a particular candidate.

Whoever is voted into office will be my president, whoever that is, whether I voted for him or not, will be the man I support.

[kateri]

i'm a :canada, and i'm of two minds about this...
on the one hand, i would probably be pretty pissed off for people from another country advising me on how to vote.
but on the other hand, you have to understand how terrified we are. the winner of the upcoming election has the potential to wreak even more havoc on the entire world, yet the entire world doesn't get to vote. all we can do is look on in horror. please try to understand how powerless we feel in the face of this, then you might understand why someone might pick up a pen and write that letter, even if it doesnt seem like their business. the fate of the entire world is at stake, not just the US.

[shortstop]

The presidency of the US has become a global issue wether or not Americans want to see it that way. We are not isolationists anymore, we are not in our own little bubble...our president and choices have a huge impact on the rest of the world. And the fact of the matter is that we are NOT well liked anymore. Granted, I am a firm believer that we need to fix the problems at home first, but this is a global economy...and that has to be taken into some consideration.
I don't know if I would be annoyed or not but even if I were, that does not give me or anyone the right to thrown ignorant mean statements back to a country that is very much affected by the outcome of this election. Being annoyed does not give anyone the automatic ability to be ignorant and rude. Period.

[SFishy]

Being annoyed does not give anyone the automatic ability to be ignorant and rude. Period.

I agree.

Annoyed, put-out, pissed-off, whatever is really besides the point. Why do "we" as American's have to respond in such tacky ways? So if you don't agree, throw the letter away. Why resort to attacks and name-calling? Maybe this "arrogance" is at least part of the reason we are looked upon so unfavorably by so many around the world.

[Vicks]

I agree, no matter what the issue and so forth, there is rudenss and politieness, and it honestly, doen'st take much to be polite.

I guess, I come from a different background then some of you, because I do work for a non-profit, and we do fundraising, so we send out those annoying letters to people. But honestly? People do respond to those annoying letters.

Personally, I think it is great, that there is activism, on the part of anyone, being done anywhere. To me, anything that gets people interested in the world, is a good thing. These letters, can be tossed away, ignored, ect... but to respond with rude and crass remarks, just paints a very negative image of American's. Right now, we do have an uphill battle in the world, with out image, that image is important, as Shortstop said "we are not isolationists" this is a global world, and the actions by a few do affect the many sometimes.

Vicks

[saralee]

:hugon Amy :hugoff

I totally agree. I think it is time for us as Americans(and especially our leaders) to SHUT our mouths and OPEN our ears to the world community and find out

a) what the hell is going on. why are they REALLY mad at us?(why would they give a shit that we are free? i don't subscribe to that point of view).

b)how we can reestablish ourselves as thinking people in the world community.

The responses those people gave to the letters remind me of a spoiled rotten kid who INSISTS on getting himself all dirty and muddy and acts boorish, and then when mom lends a hand of guidance or support, the kids slaps it away. It's like we are saying, "ITS OUR MESS, BUTT OUT!!!".

But its not just our mess. We ARE the most powerful country on earth(weakening, but powerful), and what WE do causes a ripple effect, and, yes, does affect others. Maybe those Brits writing the letters are trying to do what they can to prevent nuclear(or "nucular") war.

I don't blame them. I'd do the same thing.

:love Sara :bandwagon

[wish]

To be quite honest, I personally would have loved to get one of those letters. I live about an hour from the border with Ohio in Pennsylvania, another swing state. This is the first presidential election I will be eligible to vote in, and I would have been VERY interested in finding out what people in the UK (or any other country for that matter) think about our candidates. In our day to day life, we are pretty much surrounded by other Americans, and it would be so meaningful to hear an outside perspective on all of this. Our actions definitely do effect everyone else in the world, so it makes sense that people in other countries are concerned about our presidential choice and want to do everything they can to make their voices heard. They can't vote, but they will have to live with the consequences of our choice.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the letters. I would rather get a heartfelt letter than a tacky flier with an attractive picture of the candidate with his family that contained no substantive information whatsoever. America has a long history of trying to influence who is in power in other countries, and it has generally come through much more violent means than letter-writing campaigns. Sorry if this post comes across as opinionated or arrongant or something like that, but this is an issue I feel very strongly about.

:love Wish

[gone]

It's kind of an interesting concept.

I think i'd like it a little better if the US recipients of those letters also had the opportunity to write to the UK people when THEY had elections and give their own views on who they should vote for.

I believe that communication is good. As long as these people who receive letters have a return address they can send their responses to, or respond to in the future, then that's cool.

I think it's important to see how we are portrayed in the world. It's also important for other countries who haven't felt the brunt of terrorism yet to understand what we're dealing with- we're not bullies pushing other countries around, the US to me is merely trying to protect ourselves and weaker countries like Israel who desperately need our help. If a pre-emptive strike is necessary, so be it. I think the US should be open to other country's views on our war on terrorism, but they should also be open to the US's views. Dialogue on both sides is essential.

[Vicks]

green - I liked your responce, but hate to say this "I think many Americans, wouldn't even know where to start as far as foreign politics goes" It is a great concept tho.
Vicks

[macgirl]

I'm with Vicks.

Never mind that, but given that the UK has a parliamentary system, you vote for a local candidate. The party that wins the most seats (or who can form a coalition with another party for that majority) chooses the prime minister.

In any case, I'd be surprised if the average American can name the three major UK political parties. Or one of them, even.

[Vicks]

macgrl - Labor and Tory does the UK have the green party?

Vicks

[Catherose]

SFishy said: I agree.

Annoyed, put-out, pissed-off, whatever is really besides the point. Why do "we" as American's have to respond in such tacky ways? So if you don't agree, throw the letter away. Why resort to attacks and name-calling? Maybe this "arrogance" is at least part of the reason we are looked upon so unfavorably by so many around the world.

I don't neccessarily agree that it's something we as americans do. You mentioned TWO individuals, out of a country of several million people. You also gave us no information about what the original letter said. Thus, we probably have thw two worst examples of American responses and no examples of British letters.

[macgirl]

Vicks said: macgrl - Labor and Tory does the UK have the green party?

Vicks (New) Labour and Tory, yes. The green party would not be the major third party (and neither are the "monster raving loony party" - yes, that's their real name).

The Liberal Democrats (formerly known as the Social Democrats) are the third major party, and are likely to garner significant support in the next general election.

[Vicks]

Cathrinrose - You know what Cathrine? Even if the leters that the people from the UK sent, were visious, mean sprited ect.. it still doesn't give anyone the right to respond in the same way. Two wrongs, never make a right, and I wouldl ike to hope people can set the bar higher, but jnot resorting to tacky insulting tactics. Prove hwo intelligent American's are, instead of proving how illeducated, we all.

Vicks

[xchangagirl]

I think it would be cool to receive one of those letters. I really enjoy getting mail, and I'd probably try and turn it into a penpal (given that I actually had an iota of free time). Even if it gets on someone's nerves, though, there's nobody saying they can't just toss out the letter...it's not like it's hurting anyone. Besides it is good to see views from around the globe, and even if you can get that from a newspaper, this seems more personal. It really bugs me when Americans continue to give the world more reasons to believe in the legendary "Ugly American".

:loveJessica:love

[Dorian]

:hugon Catherose :hugoff

I agree with what you have written, and in fact, that was my first response in reading SFishy's post as well.

Sure, there are ignorant Americans who are rude and "mean-spirited". I feel pretty confident in saying, there are ignorant English who are rude and "mean-spirited". The article cited presented a few examples and it's a [i]media piece, which means it's likely to be biased and also likely aimed at getting people riled up (mission accomplished, eh?).

I understand the perception of the world is that Americans are rude and tactless and uninterested in others' opinions (ethnocentric). It may be true that some Americans are - but chances are good that this is also true of many other countries. Because the US is so powerful, our ethnocentrism matters more - it doesn't mean we're necessarily so different from other countries. (Am I defensive, yes maybe a bit :shy)

Did you notice the responses from Americans on this board? It sure sounds like we're pretty civilized and unlikely to spout off those rude responses - why not generalize from us rather than those in the article?

I must admit, I would not be receptive to getting one of those letters. I like to get both sides of any issue and it sounds like those motivated enough to write letters are likely to be writing pretty one-sided letters. What I would appreciate, is a public broadcast with information about the relative impact of each candidate on the rest of the world. I'm doubtful that this could be made in an unbiased way given that the format would have to be mass-media. Yet, I'm pretty sure it would be less biased than those letters.

I'll be doing my part on Tuesday.
:love Kate

[Vicks]

Dorian - I am American, and I do not for one minute think other countries are nicer, more civilized ect.. than my country. I think there are rude people all over. I love the US I do. No matter what someone does, two wrongs don't make a right. If someone is rude, do you respond with rudeness back? To me no. To me that is sinking to another person's level.

Dorian - I also have had the privledge of traveling a lot, and studying abroad. I also had an exchange student live with me for a year who was from Russia. The most common thing I can say, in all of my traveling is that most people love the idea of American democracy and love the life style and free spirtitedness that American culture promotes. In all the travelnig I have done also tho, I did come across one common theme and that them was "arogance". The US has a right in a way to be arogant, after all we do a ton, but at times I wish would recognize that we could learn from other places. These letters, are no different then the letters I receive every day in the mail from different political parties, and/or candidates.

My only hope is that all people in all contries react with civility, that if someone slings mud, someone doesn't sling back, that is the true test of someones character.

Vicks

[Catherose]

Vicks-
I agree with you that two wrongs do not make a right, and nowhere in my reply did I condone what the Americans said. You seem to think that I did, because you started arguing at ME personally about a point I had never made and don't agree with. Please read more carefully.
-Catherine

[SFishy]

Here are some samples:

Hey England, Scotland and Wales,
Mind your own business. We don't need weenie-spined Limeys meddling in our presidental election. If it wasn't for America, you'd all be speaking German. And if America would have had a president, then, of the likes of Kerry, you'd all be goose-stepping around Buckingham Palace. YOU ARE NOT WANTED!! Whether you want to support either party. BUTT OUT!!!

<HR>

Have you not noticed that Americans don't give two shits what Europeans think of us? Each email someone gets from some arrogant Brit telling us why to NOT vote for George Bush is going to backfire, you stupid, yellow-toothed pansies ... I don't give a rat's ass if our election is going to have an effect on your worthless little life. I really don't. If you want to have a meaningful election in your crappy little island full of shitty food and yellow teeth, then maybe you should try not to sell your sovereignty out to Brussels and Berlin, dipshit. Oh, yeah - and brush your goddamned teeth, you filthy animals.

<HR>

Consider this: stay out of American electoral politics. Unless you would like a company of US Navy Seals - Republican to a man - to descend upon the offices of the Guardian, bag the lot of you, and transport you to Guantanamo Bay, where you can share quarters with some lonely Taliban shepherd boys.

<HR>

KEEP YOUR FUCKIN' LIMEY HANDS OFF OUR ELECTION. HEY, SHITHEADS, REMEMBER THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR? REMEMBER THE WAR OF ****************? WE DIDN'T WANT YOU, OR YOUR POLITICS HERE, THAT'S WHY WE KICKED YOUR ASSES OUT. FOR THE ********% OF YOU WHO DON'T WANT PRESIDENT BUSH, I SAY THIS ... TOUGH SHIT!

<HR>

Keep your noses out of our business. As I recall we kicked your asses out of our country back in ****************. We do not require input from losers and idiots on who we vote for in our own country. Fuck off and die asshole!!!!!

<HR>

Real Americans aren't interested in your pansy-ass, tea-sipping opinions. If you want to save the world, begin with your own worthless corner of it.

<HR>

Dear wonderful, loving friends from abroad,
We Ohioans are an ornery sort and don't take meddling well, even if it comes from people we admire and with their sincere goodwill. We are a fairly closed community overall. In my town of Springfield, I feel that there are some that consider people from the nearby cities of Columbus or Dayton, as "foreigners"- let alone someone from outside our country.

<HR>

THE AMERICAN TAXPAYERS HAVE SPENT TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS PROTECTING THE PEOPLES OF THE EU, AND WHAT DO WE GET IN RETURN. BETRAYAL, BETRAYAL, BETRAYAL. I HAVE BEEN TO YOUR COUNTRY, THE COUNTRY OF MY ANCESTORS, AND I KNOW WHY THEY LEFT.

MAY YOU HAVE TO HAVE A TOOTH CAPPED. I UNDERSTAND IT TAKES AT LEAST ******** MONTHS FOR YOUR GREAT MEDICAL SERVICES TO GET AROUND TO YOU. HAVE A GREAT DAY.

Were there nice letters too? I'm sure.

I'm amazed at how much energy people expend at attacking others. Whether I agree with an opinion or not, I surely don't need to launch into derogatory insults.

I honestly think we should at least LISTEN to others from around the world -- whether we agree or not is besides the point. We are often seen as arrogant and self-centered, and is it that hard to understand why? How much derogatory stuff have you heard about the french put out by our government and media after France decided not to back the Iraq war effort? "Freedom Fries"???? Come-on.

It's really just about ANYONE'S ability to be civil to another person.

Take care of YOU

[Rosey]

As a Guardian reader in the :uk, I did kind of think the whole idea was a bit weird - I could understand people in Ohio kind of thinking 'Butt Out!' but, as every one has said, I also strongly think that the correct response would be to ignore the letter, or to respond politely at the very least. And I would be pleased by their interest.

I have a question though. I read that Fox portrayed the Guardian as encouraging the uk to write letters encourage Ohio voters specificly to vote for Kerry, when this was definitely not so. Is this true about Fox? They get a very bad press in the UK, as being quite biased and sensationalist.

:love Rosey

[geordiegeorgie]

:ummm I know I'm a bit slow on the uptake of this discussion... but can I just throw in another perspective?

I'm a :uk... and I received several emails instructing (and yes, I mean instructing! God would apparently stop my pocket money otherwise) me to vote Republican and had a phone call asking me to vote Democrat :muhaha. I'm fairly sure of the friend from whom the Democrats got my number... but the Republicans?! I doubt it was the Guardian :muhaha

So this election I've had the distinct impression that the US really wants my vote from over the pond!

[shortstop]

Were there nice letters?
Yes.
Were there rude letters?
Yes...just scroll up!

It does NOT matter how many nice versus how many mean. What matters is the perception of who we are as a nation to other countries. You could live under a rock and know that it is not too hot right now. We are seen as arrogant and self-centered for a reason. And that reason is because that is how the majority acts. Americans on the whole don't care about what is going on elsewhere in the world. We go around policing the world like the world is ours to police, so in my opinion everyone on the planet has the right to be interested and even somewhat involved in something that could effect their lives. Americans don't have the patent on opinion. We've made it a point to insert ourselves everywhere (well, not everywhere, mainly in places that can serve us in some way) we can in the world yet we do not want any feedback from those countries. Can't have it both ways.

[LucyE]

:hugon :bowl :hugoff

I am a :uk fishy. I guess i am trying to defend the :uk here, not from the :bowl but from the rections to these letters.

Here in teh :uk it is widely believed that interms of froegn policy, especially Iraq, Tony Blair is not thinking on hisown, about what would be the best for the :uk, but agreeing with Bush in order to keep what is known here as the "special relationship".

I guess this si the basis that the guardian decided to do this, in a way proxy voting for someting that was going to affect us a lot!

I know elections are very contrversial times, and maybe this wasn't the best timing by the guardian.

I can understand that people might be annoyed at getting the letter from the :uk, when i guess many people would be voting for home rasons (haelth./eductaion etc). But sometiems, at least here ,that tyhe US seem to forget that they are the most powerful nation in the world. and A LOT of what is decded in the US means it WILL happen, just look at Iraq.

I ave to say thougthat if it was reversed i would look at hat they ave written, that someone took time to write. i man i live in the :uk and have a uk email address, yet i still got several emails daily urging me to vote for either Bush or Kerry, but tehse were just SPAM, and people didn't take tiem to think and write soemthingpesonally.

I agree that there are people in ever nation who would react lik ethat, i know here the BNP would probably say something, but i agree if they didn't agree why did they hae to be so nasty?

[gone]

I have to say, if I got a letter from someone from another country telling me who to vote for, I'd be angry.

I feel like other countries expect the US to do it all. Sure, the US is criticized for going into Iraq, or Kosovo, or Kuwait, or Vietnam. But any time there is a genocide, or a disaster strikes like the tsunami, other countries ask why the US doesn't do more. The US can't be the world's police force and major source of charity. It just can't. And it shouldn't be expected to be that.

If I got a letter from someone in another country, that would be really cool. But if the letter was telling me I should vote for x, I'd be pretty darn angry. Because it's MY business who I vote for, not someone in some other country. There is no justification you can give me for harassing me about who I have voted for. All these emails that went around urging me to vote for a certain candidate, friends telling me I was crazy or unamerican or conservative or liberal if I voted for x- all of that is wrong. Voting is a personal decision, to be made by an individual when they step into a voting booth.

People are pissed at the US and say that they need to criticize the US because it is the most powerful nation in the world. And then they get angry when we do not contribute "enough" to the tsunami victims. I'm really sorry to all you foreign fishys, I am not meaning to be rude here, but it feels like other countries do not have respect for the US and are getting way too involved in the US's affairs and asking the US for things it should not have to do or give. I would not send someone in Britain or France or Germany a letter telling them that they should vote for x because of whatever reason.

I love pen pals. But pen pals telling me who to vote for- no. And it makes me wonder, did any of those people who sent letters to the US have a return address on their letters, so that people could respond to them and have dialogue? Maybe if they did have that return address I would feel a little better about it. Dialogue is good, conversation is good, but someone instructing me to vote for my presidential candidate- with the logic that the US is powerful, in part because other countries are demanding so much from it- well, that's not right.

And I'll get off my soapbox now. Most likely people won't like what I'm writing here, but that's OK, I am used to thinking differently than most.

[Vicks]

The US can't be the world's police force and major source of charity. It just can't. And it shouldn't be expected to be that

Guess what? This is how it is, and that is just a fact. The US makes out to be the police force, and as the most powerful country in the world at the moment, the US has an obligation, to do certain things, to go above and beyond. Far to many times, the US hasn't taken the lead, but then during WWII the changed. The US used to be isolationist, and I would hate for it to go back to that.

Many other countries just do not have the same sort of resources that the US posesses. A century from now, this may not be true, and if/when that happens, whatever country is "on top" I would expect, them to go above and beyond, what is expected of them.

Vicks

[gone]

Good points, Vicks.

I know for me, I feel like as an American I am caught in a catch-twenty-two. I am criticized constantly about my country, both for doing too much, and for doing not enough. Some things my government does I agree with, others I do not. But until other countries start to work with the US, and everyone works together, then there is always going to be this resentment of the US, and also this need for the US's resources.

I am glad that you don't want the US to be isolationist. I sure don't want that, either. But I don't want the US to get so over-extended that it can't take care of its own affairs. When I think about all the children getting shot to death in inner cities, starving to death, etc, it makes me sick, because I think that some of the money that the US is spending stationing troops in Bosnia and Kosovo could go towards that. It's a tough balance. I don't want us to be isolationist, but I hear a lot of people saying that we should do that, especially in light of the war on terrorism.

The point of this is that we live in a global world with a global economy, whether we like it or not. The internet, fast transportation, etc. has made it so we can connect with other countries quickly. I wish that the US could find a way to work WITH other countries as opposed to simply giving money, stationing troops, waging war (sometimes when requested by the international community), etc. Maybe the US is the most powerful now, but looking at things now, there are countries like China that are coming up quick and responsibilities need to be assigned and divided. Maybe the UN can be reformed so it is more effective...

[LucyE]

I don't want to make anyone angry or upset anyone, this view is from what has been on the news here in the :uk.

In terms of the US being the worlds police force, in some ways it has put itself in that postion. I agree that oene country shoudn't be the police force, and that is exactly what the UN is meant to be. hwover with stuff like the war in Iraq, the US decioded itself to be the worlds police force there as they refused to allow it to go the way that the UN wanted it to go, and wnated to go in then.

BEyond teh US the US is seen as the most powerful/well off etc country in the world. We are asking ourselves here are we doing enough for people in the Tsunami, but also that what the world as a whole is doing.

We here have a campagin this year about poverty (which does affect much of the areas that was affected mby the Tsunami, and there fore the :uk is not just looking to the US but also to itself.

sorry felt i had to defend us here, what i am saying i know is not the same opion as oter people, and i respect that.