michael moore

[saralee]

Oops...I thought I was in the Current Events forum. Please move if necessary. Sorry about that!




Hey pretty :fishy s

So last night my husband and I drove up to Kent, Ohio to see Michael Moore talk.

It was one interesting night. It was so exciting, almost electric in the auditorium. I feel a lot of gratitude to michael moore for saying the things that I have felt for a very long time now.

That being said, I know that Michael Moore is a "hot button" for many people. Many people absolutely hate him. Many write off what he says because he's too "radical" or "extreme".

I'm not sure how I feel. I guess thats the point of posting here...to get this all out. I mean, the one thing about Moore that bothers me is that he does seem to bash Bush a lot. That bothers me not so much out of any loyalty toward Bush, but because I personally think it makes his stance on things a little less credible.

I'll say this loud and clear: I am a die-hard "liberal".....that word didn't used to carry such negative connotation. Mainly, I believe in a government system that is more concerned with social welfare than "you pat my back financially, and I'll pat yours"(which is something about the republican ideology that bugs me so
much). I'm less interested in tax cuts for the rich, and more interested in improving the world, and specifically, America.

But, liberal or not, the current political climate today upsets me. It upsets me when people, democrat or republican, go so extreme as to believe that their way is the only way that has any merit. It bugs me when Republicans bash Kerry....AND it bugs me when Democrats bash Bush. That gets us no where, and, in fact, I think that when people like Michael Moore(who is such an articulate and intelligent and caring man) resort to almost namecalling, it is sad for our country.

What do You :fishy s think?

Moore's appearance was something I definately would not have wanted to miss. Rosanne Barr was there also, and she spoke, and the guitarist for the band "Rage Against The Machine" performed a song he wrote about the shame of war.

:love Sara :bandwagon

[Jennnifer]

I hate Michael Moore.
And I'm not a democrat or a republican.

[saralee]

:hugon Jennifer :hugoff

I respect your opinion about Moore. Many feel the same way. I was wondering if you could mention what it is in particular you hate about him.

:love Sara :bandwagon

[SparklingxXxReality]

I completely agree saralee. I am non-partisan. I have yet to see Fahrenheit ****/******** or get through a whole Michael Moore book but I know that he's just as slanted as those on the far-right. Politicians and the highly-opinionated bashing on eachother just makes them look petty. One thing I do like about Moore is that he doesn't hail Kerry as being amazing or anything either. The VAST majority of politicians, including Kerry and Bush, are sleazebags with underlying motives. Let's just face the facts there. That's why I hate hearing people talk about Bush like he's one tier under God. Makes me absolutely sick.

But yeah, I would like to hear specific reasons from any of you who hate Michael Moore. Oh, I also must say that I saw most of Bowling For Columbine and definetely appreciated that movie. The part with Marilyn Manson was my favorite. I'm definetely not a big fan of the man and I don't think he's a great role model but he IS very intelligent. Why were so many people outraged by him singing songs about his personal opinion but all-too-comfortable with the fact that our president, our country is killing innocent people with the bombs we're dropping overseas? Hate existed in the hearts of men long before Marilyn Manson did and will continue to exist after he's gone. We just have such a need to point fingers and find that scapegoat.

hah that was a side note, but anyways, can't wait to hear what others have to say

[djanels]

yes, i'd too like to know what you hate about him; i personally have seen both documentaries and read all of his books
i DO agree with alot of what he says; not only that, but i love the way in which he puts it forward
everyone in the US has the ability to put things the way he does; we just don't tend to speak up and say how we feel
personally, he's been an inspiration to me, to speak my mind and not be so afraid of what others will say about

love, Deanna
djanels@yahoo.com

[saralee]

:hugon Sparkling :hugoff

Yes, I think that America is way divided, and that's probably why there are so many with extreme views, on both sides. I wish we as Americans could have one huge talk and respectfully discuss what is going on right now. I wish we were more united, and not so divided from within.

Bowling For Columbine was awesome, yes I agree. I liked when he confronted Heston...I mean, that was REALLY insensitive of the NRA to show up for a rally right after Columbine, and then again with that second shooting. Geez. :ohboy

:hugon djnels :hugoff

Moore is definately an inspiration for me, as well. It is easy to go along with the grain of society...but much much harder to stand up for an unpopular idea like, for instance, that assault weapons don't belong on America's streets. Moore could care LESS what people think of his opinions, and I think in many ways he has spoken out for a lot of people in this nation.

Oh, by the way, have you seen his movie "The Big One"....people usually know about Bowling and Fahrenheit, but "The Big One" is great too. In it, he takes on big corporations who ship precious American jobs overseas. It's fantastic. He "corners" the president of Nike shoes, because that guy sent all his jobs to malaysia in sweat shops where they make pennies on the dollar. If you've not seen it, check it out sometime.

Thank all of you guys for sharing!

:love Sara :bandwagon

[Jennnifer]

I'll just give two since I have to get the kids to bed...

:bullet When he was booed at the Oscars for his war diatribe, he actually said in People magazine that the audience wasn't booing... just a couple of stage hands... well, tell that to my lying eyes and ears!

:bullet He hates big corporations, but he sure loves that corporate jet he uses to promote himself.

[Marigold]

I love, worship and Adore Michael Moore....

And if that sounds a *bit* over the top...

Oh Well!:sarcasm:cheesy!!!

The thing is - he uses his money in ways he thinks will help not hurt.

He's BRAVE! He takes alot of flak from many. Is he perfect? No. Who is?

-Marigold:sun

[ABCANDO]

Politics are always such a touchy subject. But, since it's started....

saralee, you said "Mainly, I believe in a government system that is more concerned with social welfare than "you pat my back financially, and I'll pat yours"(which is something about the republican ideology that bugs me so
much). I'm less interested in tax cuts for the rich, and more interested in improving the world, and specifically, America."

Where did you get the belief that republican idealogy says "you pat my back financially, and I'll pat yours"? I know that's something that many democrats believe about republicans, but, if you're going to be fair about things, then you also need to slam the democratic notion of "give me give me give me" that many republicans believe about democrats.

Look a little closer at what many democratic leaders are saying, and make sure what they are talking about is "improving America" and not slamming America for standing up for itself.

As far as Michael Moore goes, where does he get his knowledge? Is he educated in policital science? Has he done the research necessary to support his opinions? Or, is he just doing what he wants and feels like he's entitled to at the expense of anyone and everyone who gets in his way? I don't hate him, but I also have no respect for him - because I feel his veiws are very slanted, and very much the elitist opinion.

Did you read the whole scenario surrounding the Nike incident? Or are you just seeing what Michael wants shown?

What about Michael makes you believe he's articulate, intelligent and caring? Michael Moore speaks out for himself, and voices his opinion. I would be very careful saying that he speaks for many in the nation. He may speak for you - but don't kid yourself into thinking that he cares what you think.

SparklingxXxReality - I haven't heard anyone speak about Bush as if he's one tier under God. I have, however, heard a lot of praise for what he's done, and the fact that he stands up for what he believes is right.

You went on to say "Why were so many people outraged by him singing songs about his personal opinion but all-too-comfortable with the fact that our president, our country is killing innocent people with the bombs we're dropping overseas?"

When there is war, the reality is that people die. What about all the innocent people who were killed at the towers? At the world trade center? What about all the innocent people that Saddam had killed? What about all the innocent people that have been killed by terrorists everywhere, not just in the US? What about genocide in Africa? The killings in Somalia? Haiti?

Oh, and what about all the "not so innocent" people?

America - and the president at the time - has stepped in many times to help conflict in other places. NOT JUST THE CURRENT PRESIDENT. Clinton stepped in, Bush stepped in, FDR stepped in - you can go back through history and see time and time again where America stepped in to help and back others in the time of need. So, why are you picking on the current president? Is his bringing down Saddam and his supporters any different than when we stopped Hitler and his supporters? What about all the mass graves that have been uncovered?

Although is would be a beautiful sight to see everyone live in harmony, the reality is we don't. So, would you prefer that America not step in? Would you prefer to turn a blind eye to what's going on around us? Trust me, until everyone places the same value on human life as we do, harmony will not exist. Suicide bombers don't care if they die. People are constantly bombing places and taking lives "in the name of ____" (and the blank is filled in however they feel). They believe they are justified in taking lives for their cause. There are still places where women have no value, and are stoned to death for reasons beyond our comprehension. There are places where children start slave labor as soon as they're able to walk. Is all that OK? Should we just leave it alone?

Marilyn Manson is over the top. His music is beyond personal expression. It's just wrong. Plus, if he's a musician, the let him be just that - a musician. Being a musician doesn't make you a policital or religious genius. It just means you have musical talent - and, for me, he doesn't even have that. Just a lot of anger that he calls music.

Marigold - worship? Adore? What is it about him that puts him in such a high place with you?

You said "The thing is - he uses his money in ways he thinks will help not hurt.'

I'm pretty sure that none of the people being discussed here use their money in ways they think will hurt. People who put money into a cause usually believe in that cause - and believe that cause is right and just. So, why is he any different? He puts his money into something he believes in. Well, so do I. So?

With all that said....

Do I wish we could have a political debate/campaign/discussion where the goal is not to slam the other? Absolutely. I'm still wishing for the time when we say to all candidates that they can ONLY tell us what they can do, and what their plan is - NOT what the other person can't do and hasn't done. There is too much of "what he can't/didn't/won't do" and not enough of "what I can/will/have done".

The most important thing we can do is listen. Don't believe everything you hear, and make sure you have all the facts before you support someone or a belief. If you're only listening to one side, then you may not really know what's going on.


Make informed decisions. Support things that you are informed about.

Michael Moore and Marilyn Manson are not authorities on the subject of politics. They are performers; artist. And that's how you need to see them - as artist offering their opinion (whether it's asked for or not), and not as people educated on the subject. Just because they say it, doesn't mean it's true, factual, or so.

Oh, and Jennifer? Good for you.

[saralee]

:hugon Abacondo :hugoff

Thank You so much for sharing your stance on all of this. This is what I love(or used to love) about America: we can all have our opinion and we can all be respected just the same. Things have changed in most circles, but I refuse to disrespect another's view, so yes, I really do appreciate your words here, and will respond to them here. Your words will be in quotes, to keep it organized. Mine will be written in blue.

Where did you get the belief that republican idealogy says "you pat my back financially, and I'll pat yours"?

This belief comes from many sources. But the most prominent one right now is Bush giving huge tax cuts to the rich, and spending our surplus in that way, rather than something that would help the other ninety-nine percent of americans. Republicans have always been notorious for seeing the rich as "their base" as Bush put it, rather than the elite. And I do not have children, so I did not receive the four hundred dollars that parents got. Who knows? I may never have children: It seems unfair to me to give such a tax break based on something as arbitrary as whether or not a person has brought another into the world, or as unlikely as becoming a millionaire. I'd rather the money was spent on social welfare. Another republican action that is a pat on the back of corporations, but a shirk to us normal people, is giving tax cuts to companies that ship precious american jobs overseas. What? We NEED those jobs.

"Look a little closer at what many democratic leaders are saying, and make sure what they are talking about is "improving America" and not slamming America for standing up for itself. "

I would never dream of slamming this awesome nation for standing up for itself. But invading Iraq was not "us standing up for ourselves".... Sadam Hussein didn't have a link to Al Queda, as the nine eleven commission reported. I did support, however, action in Afghanistan to find Bin Laden, but the US decided to focus their effort on a country not involved with nine eleven: Iraq.

"Has {Moore} done the research necessary to support his opinions?"

Yes.

"I don't hate him, but I also have no respect for him - because I feel his veiws are very slanted, and very much the elitist opinion."

The elitist opinion is the one that the elite would have. You know, those folks we gave the billions of dollars in tax relief to.

"What about Michael makes you believe he's articulate, intelligent and caring?"

Michael has devoted his life to standing up for the "little guy"...in no specific terms, this "guy" is the one who lost his job and can't feed his family...he is the American whose job was shipped to Malaysia so that the company could make more money by paying folks pennies on the dollar. That "guy" is the one who Loves America, but has been demonized by the Right Wing folks for expressing concern over our motives in Iraq. She is the one whose child was shot and killed at school, in part, because the U.S. government thinks that assault weapons are fine for everyday people to own. Moore comes from Flint, Michigan, a once booming industrial town that is now dirt poor, because big businesses have refused to invest in their people by staying in Flint and making jobs available to those Americans. I drove through Flint on my way up to Canada, and man, is it a ghost town of buildings boarded up and people living very very poor.

"
The most important thing we can do is listen. Don't believe everything you hear, and make sure you have all the facts before you support someone or a belief. If you're only listening to one side, then you may not really know what's going on."

I agree wholeheartedly. And listening to what Moore has to say goes right along with "not believing what we are spoon fed by the media". There is no such thing as a liberal media anymore, and frankly, there should not be. However, our media today is Extremely biased toward the right. I read the newspaper, watch the news, and yes, I've watched Fahrenheit nine eleven. Have you? After educating myself of the various views out there, I have come to the conclusions that I have come to. The Republican view is the one we are fed for breakfast, lunch and dinner in the media. It's taken a bit more research, on my part at least, to find out what's really going on.

Once again, I certainly do respect your view. It's great to disagree, isn't it? If we were living in some areas of the world, we'd be in big trouble for even having this discussion. How blessed we are as Americans!


:love Sara :bandwagon

[Marigold]

Some people love him and some hate him.

Those that love him will find their reasons why -

And those that hate him will also find Their reasons why.

Personally, I'm all for a guy who speaks for the those who often have no voice...

And I don't think he needs a degree in political science to know what he knows. He's an American and speaks out. He's also very bright and informed.

If you don't like him nothing he says, shows or proves will ever be enough. Nothing.

If you do like him, everything he's Already said, shown and proven is More than enough.

There's still Alot of repression and censorhsip going on in this country though we call ourselves the "land of the free".

I love America - but that doesn't mean I think America does not censor.

In fact, we just got a new video in to the library where I work called "Control Room" - which is about how the news slants, represses and outright denies.

Moore's not perfect, as I've said (and who is?) - but he's one voice in a veritable sea of sharks who speak for (and defend) the power elite -

Well, that's how I see it.

-Marigold:sun

[Kensington]

I've seen all of Michael Moore's movies & enjoyed them. I saw "Fahrenheit" but already knew so much of it from all the publicity it got that it wasn't much of a surprise. I preferred "Roger & Me" & "Bowling for Columbine".

I don't think someone has to be a politician for their opinions to have merit. There are plenty of blowhards filling the TVs & radios of this country who don't know their bum from a hole in the ground & their opinions are taken as gospel by many. Yes, Moore is a filmmaker but that doesn't mean he has to limit his life's calling to just that. There are plenty of people who look for something deeper in a movie than some of the fluffy cars blowing up Rambo stuff that fills the theatres & for a lot of them, Moore is a good choice.

Marilyn Manson - oy! I think he is talentless & silly. I had the misfortune of seeing him in concert (I was there to see Nine Inch Nails & MM was the opening act). My friend & I giggled all thru his set becuz he just seemed to be trying so hard to shock people & be considered cool. However, I think he has as much right to talk about politics as anyone else. He has as much right to put out his music even if it disgusts some people. It's one thing to feel he's "wrong", it's another to think he shouldn't have the right to express himself.

Back to Moore, I don't worship him or think he's infallible. I do think he's an excellent filmmaker & that statement does not just have to include his point of view in his films. A person can make a film with which you disagree, but still be a talented filmmaker. I like the way he makes his points, the things he comes up with, like asking members of Congress to sign up their kids to go to Iraq. To me, that makes a point & is much more creative than just standing there saying into the camera, "Why don't their kids go?".

I realize people either love or hate Moore. But what I ask those who hate him to understand is that for a lot of people, it's a welcome change of pace to have him in the public eye when they have put up with years & years of Limbaugh & Fox News types who have put forth their opinions as facts. While I detest Limbaugh, I support his right to have a radio show.

What bugs me is when people say Moore shouldn't be allowed to make movies. Freedom of speech & the right to express one's self are part of the very democracy we are trying to instill in other parts of the world, no?

[ABCANDO]

I've found a wealth of information at factcheck.org - that's where I've been going to see what the actual fact is, and not what someone makes it to be.

Here's the info (all from factcheck):
The Democratic National Committee released an ad saying two.seven million manufacturing jobs had been lost under Bush. That's true, but ignores the fact that manufacturing jobs started their decline three years before Bush took office.

The ad also says "Bush protects tax breaks favoring corporations that move their headquarters overseas" and that Kerry would "end job-killing tax loopholes." But as we've (factcheck) said before , "offshoring" accounts for just a small fraction of jobs that are lost, and even Democratic economists say changing the tax code won't end the overseas job drain anyway.

US manufacturing employment was in decline for nearly three years before Bush became President. It actually declined by five-hundred forty four thousand between the peak reached in March, ninety-eight and when Clinton left office, even as the economy added nearly seven.eight million jobs in all categories during the climax of a roaring economic boom that ended a few weeks after Bush was sworn in. In fact, two-hundred-thirty eight thousand of those manufacturing jobs were lost in Clinton's last six month alone, showing that the decline was well-established even before Bush had spent a day in office.

The DNC ad says Bush "protects tax breaks favoring corporations that move their headquarters overseas." It's true that the administration's tax-policy experts have testified against a Democratic proposal aimed at stopping US companies from moving their headquarters overseas. But that proposal which actually was aimed at stopping corporate tax avoidance, not job loss.

Kerry's tax plan would "end job-killing tax loopholes," a reference to the way US tax laws give US-based corporations a financial incentive to invest in other countries rather than bring their overseas profits home to be taxed. We've explained before that "offshoring" accounts for only a small fraction of lost jobs, that tax incentives are not the major reason that US companies locate plants overseas, and that even Democratic economists predict that Kerry's tax proposal wouldn't halt the practice.

Are you referring to the following when you say "base"?
"Was it that crass statement from Bush that Moore showed us: “Some people call you the elite, I call you my base” as he stood there among a bunch of rich folks, despite that the uncropped shot of that speech showed that Bush was sitting next to Al Gore at that fundraiser, not for a campaign, but for a children’s hospital where they raised ******** million for the charity? "

As for the rich being their base:
Factcheck reported the Congressional Budget Office calculates that the top twenty%(of the population) now pay sixty-three.five% of the total federal tax burden, which includes income taxes, payroll taxes and other federal levies. The top twenty% pays nearly eighty-one% of all federal income taxes.

Under the Bush tax cuts, the total federal tax burden on all income groups has been reduced, just more for some than for others. It's true that the top twenty% of income earners now pay a smaller share of the reduced tax burden, but so do the bottom forty% of earners.

Trust me, as someone who did get the four hundred - that's nothing compared to what it costs to raise a child. If you add into the equation that many of us who got that are also subject to the "marriage penalty"? And then, all those who are divorced - but don't get to claim the child on their taxes although they pay child care and provide the housing, food, etc? I saw the break as something to attempt to offset some of the HUGE expenses associated with having a family - daycare, afterschool care, medical expenses not covered by insurance....the list goes on and on, but hopefully, you see what I'm saying.

Kerry repeated that "I have a plan to cover all Americans" for health care. Actually, his plan wouldn't cover all Americans. It would increase the percentage who have coverage from eighty-four% currently to an estimated ninety-two% to ninety-five%. But several million would still be left uninsured.

What social program would you suggest? For example, my sister already received free medical coverage, free day care, free medical cards for both her children, free lunches, free afterschool programs, doesn't have to pay back her student loans....I, on the other hand, have to pay for my medical coverage, my day care.....

Whether or not Saddam had/has a link, what he was doing was abhorable. Don't we have a humanitarian obligation to stop him the same way we stopped Hitler and others along those lines? Why would it be OK to stop one, but not OK to stop the other?

Where did you find the info on Moore? Because the information I read showed that he misstated and misrepresented what he says - including saying he's from Flint. What is it he's said/done that has impressed you to such a degree?

Elite opinions tend to come from those in Hollywood, and other highly visible places. What do you think Moore and Manson did with their part of the tax cut?

Banning assault weopons wouldn't stop people from having them - anymore than saying since selling drugs is illegal, no one can buy them. What it will do is stop the honest people. The dishonest people are already dishonest - so no law, ordinance, or anything else is going to stop them from getting what they want. I'm not a gun person - by any stretch. But, I also don't believe a law is going to stop people from getting one if they want one.

You're absolutely correct - if we didn't live in the US, we would never have the freedom to say what we believe, or question what we hear.

Lets keep it that way.....

[SparklingxXxReality]

ABCANDO said:

SparklingxXxReality - I haven't heard anyone speak about Bush as if he's one tier under God. I have, however, heard a lot of praise for what he's done, and the fact that he stands up for what he believes is right.

You went on to say "Why were so many people outraged by him singing songs about his personal opinion but all-too-comfortable with the fact that our president, our country is killing innocent people with the bombs we're dropping overseas?"

When there is war, the reality is that people die. What about all the innocent people who were killed at the towers? At the world trade center? What about all the innocent people that Saddam had killed? What about all the innocent people that have been killed by terrorists everywhere, not just in the US? What about genocide in Africa? The killings in Somalia? Haiti?

Oh, and what about all the "not so innocent" people?

America - and the president at the time - has stepped in many times to help conflict in other places. NOT JUST THE CURRENT PRESIDENT. Clinton stepped in, Bush stepped in, FDR stepped in - you can go back through history and see time and time again where America stepped in to help and back others in the time of need. So, why are you picking on the current president? Is his bringing down Saddam and his supporters any different than when we stopped Hitler and his supporters? What about all the mass graves that have been uncovered?

Although is would be a beautiful sight to see everyone live in harmony, the reality is we don't. So, would you prefer that America not step in? Would you prefer to turn a blind eye to what's going on around us? Trust me, until everyone places the same value on human life as we do, harmony will not exist. Suicide bombers don't care if they die. People are constantly bombing places and taking lives "in the name of ____" (and the blank is filled in however they feel). They believe they are justified in taking lives for their cause. There are still places where women have no value, and are stoned to death for reasons beyond our comprehension. There are places where children start slave labor as soon as they're able to walk. Is all that OK? Should we just leave it alone?

Marilyn Manson is over the top. His music is beyond personal expression. It's just wrong. Plus, if he's a musician, the let him be just that - a musician. Being a musician doesn't make you a policital or religious genius. It just means you have musical talent - and, for me, he doesn't even have that. Just a lot of anger that he calls music.

Michael Moore and Marilyn Manson are not authorities on the subject of politics. They are performers; artist. And that's how you need to see them - as artist offering their opinion (whether it's asked for or not), and not as people educated on the subject. Just because they say it, doesn't mean it's true, factual, or so.


As for not hearing anyone speak about Bush as if he's one tier under God...lucky you for not having to be witness to that...I have.

I don't think it's fair that innocent people anywhere are being killed at any time. It's not. I don't think it was fair at the World Trade Center and I don't think it's fair in Iraq. But killing those innocent people isn't bringing anyone from the Trade Center back, now is it? When I was making reference to Manson's comment about the President dropping bombs...he was referring to Clinton...we're talking about Manson's influence on Columbine which was when Clinton was president. No need to defend Mr Bush in that case.

Aren't we doing exactly what you said by dropping bombs on Iraq in the name of _____ and believing that WE'RE justified in taking lives for our cause? So now we're doing the same things these terrorists do...how ironic.

Marilyn Manson is a human being with an opinion and the whole point of us being "America-Land of the Free" is so that he can state that opinion...his chosen medium is his music. And apparently a number of people appreciate what he has to say or else he wouldn't be selling records.

And yes Michael Moore and Marilyn Manson are just individuals with an opinion...just like President Bush and John Kerry. Just because they say something does not mean it's true.

[bellydancer]

I grew up in Detroit and had relatives in the Flint area. I've followed his career since I was in elementary school.

I enjoy his movies and think overall he's on target with what he says. I liked his earlier movies better, such as Roger and Me and The Big One, because I felt they were much more heartfelt than his latest work.

As a Michiganian, (or is it Michigander?), I have to say that he understands the people of his home state very well and I am proud to have him represent us.

[ribbon]

I'm so jealous. There is no one I'd like to hear speak more than him. I think he oozes patriotism through his free speech, efforts to get people to vote and his concerns for the country, even though those who disagree with him might not think so.
I think that die hard liberal is only scary to folks who are intimidated by free thinking individuals :winky.

[saralee]

:hugon Abacondo :hugoff

Thanks for your response! I think a lot of this is a question of where people get their info from. I'm not sure that I would accept what a website states, even if it is packaged as fact.

Michael Moore's record speaks for itself. The research he did is apparent in the two years he spent researching for his movie. He researched both here and in Iraq. You have every right to say that moore's statements are as questionable as I believe "factcheck.com" is(having read some things on the site)...but the problem I have with people's absolute disdain for Moore is that it's based on what they have heard on the news or other t.v. sources. Nine out of ten of these Moore haters have not even seen one of his movies. I think it is important to base our opinions on things we have seen with our own eyes. I don't like it when I hear someone downing Fahrenheit when they have not even seen it. I don't know if you fall into this category or not, but many people I know DO fall into this category and it's unfortunate. Moore is definately from Flint, Mi., and whether or not you agree with him, he is intensely passionate about helping the folks in that town alone.

I think that your idea of hollywood stars having elitist opinions goes back to what :hugon ribbon :hugoff said. A lot of people are afraid of free-thinkers, and hollywood is full of them. Most people shun "different" ideas, while other creative people embrace them. That being said, I have never and will never latch onto an idea because a "star" shares it.

:hugon Ribbon :hugoff

It was VERY exciting to see him. Rosanne Barr also showed up, as well as the guitarist for Rage Against the Machine(to play a song he wrote about all the senseless death). I don't know where you live, but Moore has a few more dates in his tour. The next one is in Cincinnati on Wednesday.

:hugon bellydancer :hugoff

Oh man, The Big One is SUCH a great movie. YOu give us an interesting perspective. How do the people of Michigan feel about Moore, in general? It seems like they would love him for taking up the cause of the people of Flint. But you never know?

:love Sara :bandwagon

[bellydancer]

Sara,
I think in the earlier days he was definitely well-received. My observation is that he became someone of a local (or statewide) favorite after Roger and Me.

The economy was terrible, people all over the state were out of work, or on the brink of being there and he was the one who confronted (or tried to confront) the fat cats in the auto industry who were putting them there. He said what a lot of people wanted to say.

My parents didn't work in the auto industry themselves, so my family was somewhat safe, but everyone was very nervous at that time. I had friends whose parents were laid off left and right. It was frustrating and upsetting.

He had a very loyal following, at least in the Detroit area, through the nineties. Like I said before, I liked his earlier work better because it was more focused and, literally, closer to home.

There are some things he says that I don't agree with, but by and large, I think he makes some very good points. He understands that he has a voice, that he has the right to question things and state his opinion and he doesn't apologize for it. Ann Coulter does the exact same thing on the right, and although I disagree with nearly everything she says, I'm glad she's exercising her right to do so.

I'm not sure how he's being received now, as his profile is much higher today and I don't live there anymore. I'm sure that with his higher profile he has taken a lot more criticism, but he definitely has a lot of strong supporters.